Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > Just Conversation
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-15-2008, 05:25 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Rick & Hope's Avatar
 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Central Arkansas
Posts: 198
Last time I check on one of or loads that was picked up in Laredo,Tx, coming out of Mexico, it was for one of the big three auto makers. Our 2008 Frieghtliner Cascadia tractor is assembled of a mix of Chinese and Mexican parts. If you look at Nascar the only Sprint cup car assembled in the U.S. is the Toyota. The big three are not American companies any longer, yet they want the government to bail them out.
__________________

__________________
1984 Heritage 2000 32 ft 1976 Jeep CJ7 toad
Rick & Hope is offline  
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-15-2008, 06:37 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
SeeTheUSA's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,454
Okay, we've all concluded this is a meaningful conversation and that secular positions won't add to the validity of the exchange.

That being said, no matter which side of the redistribution of wealth fence you stand, is the logical place to begin the US auto companies and their highly paid management and union employees?

Good grief, even I, a strong advocate for personal responsibility, can see other more deserving and truly needy segments of our great society! Let's help those who REALLY need help, not those trying to protect their high levels of affluence.

Just my opinion - yours may or may not make as much sense :-)
__________________

__________________
Warren and Debbie, Deep in The Heart of Texas, 2018 Winnebago View 24D
2014 Tiffin Breeze 32BR, 2012 Winnebago Navion 24G, 2006 Winnebago View 23H
SeeTheUSA is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 04:11 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
Chickadee's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,027
GREAT DISCUSSION!! So...having re-read this thread from the beginning a couple of times, I kinda agree with "SeetheUSA" that ...."secular positions won't add to the validity of the exchange." However, we've all grown up (at least our moderator sure hopes so ), to relate to things (our world) based on numerous factors which shaped the opinions we now think we believe in and tend to operate by. These opinions (or "secular positions")are HARD to set aside....BUT...we (each of us) need to put these positions away in the closet for awhile so we can now move ahead in this bailout discussion as simply Americans, seeking solutions. Those dang opinions we've acquired cause us to "point fingers", to "blame". So far, in the flow of this thread, we've, blamed,..let's see.... government, management, unions, consumers, competitors....maybe others. So with regard to the auto industry bailout, let's consider putting our defining positions aside for a bit, and see if we can now in this thread move this discussion down the road TOGETHER...trying to figure out how WE might best proceed . Ya think?? Steve & Lynette
__________________
2014 Newmar 3103 BAYSTAR/Triton V10 w. Banks/05 Honda Element toad
Chickadee is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:18 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
depchief's Avatar
 
Appalachian Campers
Coastal Campers
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 663
Blog Entries: 2
Saw a small paragraph in Sunday paper.
UAW leader says no more concessions.

He said that workers will not make any more concessions and that getting the automakers back on their feet means figuring out a way to turn around the slumping economy.

Nothing against the previous employees of the automakers, but don't you think if you want to continue to receive your benefits that major concessions are necessary to keep the companies moving.

If they bankrupt you may loose everything.

I am not in favor of major bailouts, some help with many provisions, would be acceptable.


AIG had a big party at our expense
__________________
2002 Winnebago Ultimate Advantage 40J, Roadmaster InvisiBrake Model 8700
2012 Chevy Captiva
NEVER FORGET
"Everyone Goes Home"
depchief is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:39 AM   #47
iRV2 Marketing
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,304
Blog Entries: 70
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by depchief:
AIG had a big party at our expense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm still fuming about that! If you take "our" money you had not better be using "yours" to party! I don't care where the money comes from or how it's allocated. Show the American people that you can be indeed be responsible and sensitive to the 10s of thousands of us that haven't had a party in years.

Until they can "Make It Happen!" business shouldn't be accomplished over the top of a martini.

Does this make sense?
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:43 AM   #48
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
A piece by Charles Krauthammer in Sunday's Houston Chronicle stated that the hourly cost of a Big 3 worker is $73 while an American Toyota worker costs $43. This inequity often extends into first tier and lower tier suppliers, so "material" costs for the Japanese transplants are lower than those of the Big 3 as well.

As I have stated, this is an insurmountable hurdle for the Big 3 to overcome, and it has been looming for years. Today's market conditions just brought it to the point of critical mass. The upshot of this inequity is that the Japanese transplants can operate profitably under today's market conditions while the Big 3 cannot.

We can whistle past the graveyard and ignore this, but until the Big 3 restructure themselves into companies that can compete, pouring taxpayer money into them with no requirement for systemic changes only delays the inevitable.

The market is what the market is. A company cannot change the market meaningfully. All it can do is to configure itself to operate competitively in the market as it exists. This is why going through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy as the airlines did can be a mechanism to allow (force?) the Big 3 automakers to remake themselves into competitive entities. As one of the financial analysts said, yes, it's a "tough love" approach, but sometimes tough love is what is required to turn things around.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:47 AM   #49
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 72
Re: The big three, I have personally viewed the parking lots of the big three in Ohio. If the cars in the lots were made by their own it would show a greater level of support. The perception of buying your own product goes a long way. Yes I know that a large percentage of components that are used to manufacture "big three cars" are made in out of the country plants. Yes it is a global economy, but those that don't support them selves don't deserve federal dollars to continue on the same path. Why not make a in kind loan of 50% labor concession for 5 years to get "the big three" rolling. That in addition to a gov. bailout could get the monkey (UAW) of auto industries back. To relieve the current backlog of inventory lets fill those parking lots with "Big three"products. Remember the perception of built by our own. Just my thoughts to get things rolling again. Rich
__________________
Mrboo is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:15 AM   #50
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
While out running errands yesterday, I got to noticing the auto dealer lots. Lots of vehicles in the new lots and with the big 3, practically no one in the customer parking and all of the sales people out front waiting for a customer. The Toyota and Honda dealers had a few customer, but not nearly what i would expect for mid-day Saturday and beautiful weather.

I know with the economy like it is, My two vehicles will do me fine for a number of years to come.

Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 09:10 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 443
Some of you think that chapter 11 is the right way to go since some of the airlines did it. Have any of you bought an airline ticket lately? We paid 4 times as much for our tickets this year as last year for a poorer flight[non-stop vs 1 stop]. We had to wait 3 hours on the tarmac while the air filters for the cabin were changed. Some of the money-saving moves that chapter 11 has caused. The airlines are a completely different business than the auto business. They can name their price and we have to pay it if we want to get there quickly.The auto business depends on several things to sell its products- People thinking they need a new car, keeping up with the neighbors,and very few just needing a new car. The dealers have to have the right color, right engine, right transmission, etc for each customer, and then sell it to them at the right price or they will go somewhere else and buy it. The auto workers have taken approximately a 40% cut in wages, larger cuts in benefits and are more efficient than the workers at the transplant factories. What do you people want? If the auto manufacturers go bankrupt the economic ramifications will be felt worldwide. Very few industries employee as many workers as the auto industry and the "trickle down" effect will definitely affect most of us. Remember, it is a loan. Hopefully, If the government sees fit to pass the legislation the executives of the auto industries will not act like the AIG executivesand spend the money partying. This will help Main Street and Wall Street I hope. Indiana Journey
__________________
indiana journey is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 10:17 AM   #52
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
Chapter 11 bankruptcy isn't the end for a corporation - rather, it's an opportunity for a new beginning. If anyone thinks the Big 3 can continue to operate as they're currently configured, the marketplace is proving that to be a fallacy.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 01:50 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Davie, Florida
Posts: 719
Who would buy a car from a company in bankruptcy? It is a death sentence for the auto industry. We will all haveto ask the question, how much is my 401K worth when our country produces nothing. The largest employer in the world is WalMart. Is that our childrens future? The second largest is not American
__________________
Denis, Ruth and Gracie
the K-9 Dashboard Ornament
2007 Newmar Baystar 3202
D in Davie is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 02:11 PM   #54
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
So, what do you propose to stop the $2+ billion per month negative cash flow that GM and Ford are experiencing? A loan isn't going to do anything to fix that - it will only prolong the agony.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:44 PM   #55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 443
I took a short break to read this thread and try to get an idea of where some of you are comming from. Lindsay-union retirees from the auto firms only make about 35% of their working wages'and the "rat hole" that you referred to- Is it the banks and insurance companies that the government just promised 700 billion dollars? Hope and Rick- our government paid for our factories[auto, clothing shoes, etc.] to move to Mexico because the Mexican governmenr owed our banks more money than they could pay back. The Mexican government gets about half of the wages paid to the workers.The Chinese have many of the manufacturing jobs by paying lower wages than the Mexican factories. They, in turn, are now loosing many of their jobs to lower wage countries. It is a visious circle with the workers being the loosers. Maybe it would be best if we just let everyone in financial trouble like the auto companies, the banks, the insurance companies, the investment companies, etc file bankrupcy. Then we all could start over; without our retirements, our 401k's, our IRA's, our roth's, etc. I don't think this is the way to go! We all have too much to loose if any or all of these business's file bankrupcy. We, the taxpayers, will ultimatly be "on the hook" for all of them. Don't give up, keep looking for a good solution for everyone. Indiana Journey
__________________
indiana journey is offline  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:13 PM   #56
Moderator Emeritus
 
Vette Racer's Avatar


 
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sand Springs, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,823
You know. all this talk about the problems of the auto industry, what about the issue of money? As I see it, the main problem is the spendable income of the American/world people, and the main problem there is the increased cost of everything, due to the increased cost of Oil!

This one thing caused everything in the world to go up in price thus creating a problem causing people worldwide to not have enough spendable income to buy things other than what they had to have to exist. Now what part of this doesn't anyone else understand!!! I don't see an issue with any particular industry or anything else, it's just a problem with spendable income. MHO! No money, no buying!

Tom
__________________

__________________
Tom
KE5NCP
2016 Silver Ram 3500 CC Dually, 2011 HitchHiker DA 349 RSB, 2014 Wrangler unlimited Rubicon
Vette Racer is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dog attack GraciesMom RV'ing with Pets 29 04-30-2009 09:51 AM
King of the road goes bankrupt Jim Wilson 5th Wheel Discussion 2 02-09-2007 08:08 AM
2007 MADP - Or, the Attack of the Electrical Gremlins Doc Mark Newmar Owner's Forum 11 01-05-2007 04:43 PM
Eagle Cap Camper .....Bankrupt! TJ Camper Truck Camper Discussion 9 10-13-2005 12:14 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.