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Old 11-20-2008, 02:24 AM   #71
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Mr. Indiana Journey (with all due respect),

Try to imagine how many folks don't have it as good as you . . . now, try to imagine how much them folks would like to contribute their hard-earned dollars to protect your cushy (better than theirs!) arrangement. See the rub yet?

I'd really hate to see your retirement get whacked, but right now it's mine I'm concerned about more. Good luck - seriously - and I won't take any from you if you don't take any from me. I don't think the good citizens of this country are advocating the reduction of YOUR retirement --- they just don't want to supplement yours with what might be THEIRS! Man, not too tough to figure that one out.

Also, don't believe those rotten CEO's you say you're not too fond of --- check out what has happened to the Big 3's stock over the last few years --- it's not the credit crunch that's left them in this mess, perhaps it has just accelerated what seems to be the rush to the end!

By the way, after retiring from a railroad after 30 years service, I get to pay for health insurance, about $1,200 per month for my lovely wife and me. I've been paying about that since 2003, will continue until 2013 when Medicare kicks in for me, my wife won't get that until 2015, so we'll still have to keep her insurance going. I'm not complaining - just stating the facts.

Now if you are feeling sorry for me and want to chip in, I'll go buy a new car - one of the so-called American ones.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:21 AM   #72
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Could be whole country going bankrupt. Some of you may find this interesting http://www.safehaven.com/article-11862.htm
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:47 AM   #73
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Bob, these CEo's that continue to crash and burn are amazing. They some how manage to sell themselves as a saviour and then after a year or two are out the door with a big package to leave.

I need to learn how to run that scam. Shoot, I'll run a company in the ground fro a year for a measly $10mm and gladly leave with another $10mm as severence pay. What a deal. I could have save Home Depot almost $200mm.

When will America wake up and realize that there is not individual worth that kind of money.

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Old 11-20-2008, 05:24 AM   #74
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The credit crunch didn't kill the Big 3. All it did is expose systemic problems that have existed for decades. A company serving a commodity market cannot exist when its cost structure is markedly higher than its competition.

Fact - the transplant automakers are still profitable. The Big 3 are not, and GM is burning cash at the rate of $5 billion per month, according to Wagoner's congressional testimony yesterday. Further, I saw no willingness on the part of the Big 3 CEOs or the UAW to make significant changes to the way they operate today. A handout of my tax dollars isn't going to fix that.

That is why Chapter 11 bankruptcy which gives them a chance to reorganize their businesses from the ground up is ultimately their best chance for survival.

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Old 11-20-2008, 07:06 AM   #75
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hope&Rick:
Could be whole country going bankrupt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think it already has, they just did not bother to tell us. Just who has the government borrowed from, and how much, at what terms?
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:54 PM   #76
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GM told: Cut every salary
Kerkorian's message: Fix must start at top, aide says
BY MICHAEL ELLIS FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER JANUARY 11, 2006


Billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian sent a stern message to General Motors Corp. on Tuesday -- cut wages from the boardroom to the factory floor, chop costs by selling the Saab and Hummer brands, and adopt a sense of urgency to survive. With GM burning through $24 million of cash a day, the company will run out of money in 1,000 days or sooner unless executives make tough decisions now, Kerkorian aide Jerome York said in a speech delivered on GM territory at the Renaissance Center.
"This situation calls for the company's going into crisis mode, adopting a degree of urgency that recognizes if things don't break right, the unthinkable could happen, that time is of the essence," York told the Society of Automotive Analysts. The society represents those who advise stockholders on automotive investments.
GM Chief Financial Officer Fritz Henderson, the fast-rising executive who took over his current role Jan. 1, exchanged friendly remarks with York before the speech and applauded his remarks afterward.
"I am in crisis mode," Henderson said. "Frankly, there was a lot he had to say today that I agree with."
Until now, Kerkorian and his representatives had not spoken publicly about GM and had not interfered in management of the automaker. But York, former chief financial officer of Chrysler Corp. and IBM Corp., said Tuesday that now was the time to give a detailed remedy for GM's ills.
The owner of MGM Mirage, the gaming company that includes the MGM Grand Detroit casino, Kerkorian has a long history of using his investments to shake up companies, none more notable than during his failed takeover attempt of Chrysler Corp. a decade ago.
Kerkorian made billions from his investment in Chrysler. But last year, he lost hundreds of millions of dollars on his stake in GM as the stock price lost nearly half its value.
Kerkorian sold 12 million shares at a loss last month, reducing his stake from to 7.8% from 9.9%, to book some tax benefits. As of Tuesday, his investment was worth about $970 million.
GM lost nearly $3.9 billion through the first nine months last year and, although its automotive operations have about $25 billion in cash at their disposal, York said the company could burn through that amount in three years or less.
For those reasons, York said that GM needs to take five steps to turn itself around:
Be realistic about market share and revenues, and cut costs accordingly. That includes a "significant" cut in compensation for the board of executives and wages for senior management, with more modest cuts for other workers. He suggested single-digit percentage cuts for workers at the lowest levels.
But he was not more specific than that, saying it was up to management to decide. Although white-collar wages and benefits could be reduced fairly quickly, the company would have to negotiate any blue-collar wage cuts with its unions.
Sell the Saab and Hummer brands and cut the number of vehicles in the rest of the lineup.
Take a "clean sheet" approach, with nothing in the company untouchable.
Make tough decisions. Those include chopping the dividend by half.
Inject a sense of urgency into the business. GM needs to set financial goals during the next three years to measure its progress, similar to what Japan-based Nissan Motor Corp. did to aid its turnaround in 1999.
After starkly outlining the steps GM needs to take, York said in an interview that he was careful not to upset the UAW. He also had nothing but praise for GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, and he hoped his remarks would be received constructively.
"I think Rick Wagoner has the opportunity here to be the preeminent CEO of the decade of the 2000s," York said, comparing him with former IBM Chief Executive Louis Gerstner and former General Electric Co. Chief Executive Jack Welch.
Wagoner, speaking to reporters at the North American International Auto Show before York's speech, said: "It's my sense there's a lot of agreement on strategy, and if anyone says, hey, can we go faster to get this business turned around, I say, 'Amen.' That's what we're working on every day."
York, 67, said GM's new lineup of SUVs coming to market this year is impressive, and the automaker's continued fall in U.S. market share may be coming to an end.
He also lauded cost-cutting measures GM took last year, including plans to shift some health care costs to hourly retirees, idle 12 North American plants and cut 30,000 UAW jobs by the end of 2008.
But he indicated that Wagoner and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger need to do more.
Wayne Horn, a 48-year-old hourly worker at GM's power train plant in Toledo, said he would support pay cuts across the company. "If it's the only way, I'm all for it," Horn said. "If you're talking like Delphi, forget it. If it's a couple bucks, I wouldn't mind."
Bankruptcies in the airline industry have shown rank-and-file workers that the usual tactic of striking to preserve wages and benefits won't work now.
GM needs to adopt an "equality of sacrifice" plan to convince hourly workers that everyone, including board directors, executives and shareholders, will take painful cuts to help the company, York said.
"It's going to take a ton of statesmanship to get any deal done here," he said.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:29 PM   #77
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An across the board wage reduction based on a percentage will not work. 10% to a lower paid work will hurt where as 10% of a $20MM CEO SHOULD not hurt. I can't imagine it taking $20MM a year to live, but I've never had the chance either.

The CEO's should be cut to make no more than the President of the United State, with or without bonuses.

The people that make the most should get the biggest cuts.

Ken
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:56 PM   #78
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Did I read that Toyota's top executives divided 13 to 14 million among themseives for their yearly compensation? Did I read that Toyota was among the auotmobile manufacturers asking for financial assistance in Europe? Somehow this seems to say that everything isn't as good as some of you seem to think with Toyota. Maybe it is the financial crisis not the American auto companies. Indiana Journey
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:58 AM   #79
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TXiceman:
An across the board wage reduction based on a percentage will not work. 10% to a lower paid work will hurt where as 10% of a $20MM CEO SHOULD not hurt. I can't imagine it taking $20MM a year to live, but I've never had the chance either.

The CEO's should be cut to make no more than the President of the United State, with or without bonuses.

The people that make the most should get the biggest cuts.

Ken </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you. President of the United States is the ultimate CEO. High salaries across the board are the reason that we have priced ourselves out of the market. Yeah, Made in America is great, but companies can't compete as long as the American workers want more in the way of salaries and benefits. As soon as a company pays more in the way of salaries and benefits their product cost rise and the price to the consumer must also rise.
If we tax off shore companies in an effort to bring jobs back to the U.S. the cost to produce would be so high a company would probably go out of business due to lack of sales.

It's like a circle. Example: I tell my boss I want a raise. The company I work for gives all of it's employees a raise and therefore raises the cost of the product we manufacture. My next door neighbor uses the product from the company that I work for. Now my neighbor tells his boss he needs a raise so that he can afford my product. And so on and so on.

Don't get me started on the salaries of athletes. Paying millions to guys "playing" a few hours a week is crazy.
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:35 AM   #80
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by indiana journey:
Did I read that Toyota's top executives divided 13 to 14 million among themseives for their yearly compensation? Did I read that Toyota was among the auotmobile manufacturers asking for financial assistance in Europe? Somehow this seems to say that everything isn't as good as some of you seem to think with Toyota. Maybe it is the financial crisis not the American auto companies. Indiana Journey </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you share with us where you got this information?

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Old 11-21-2008, 05:38 AM   #81
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The root of the problem is "the big three" are no long "THE" big three!

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Old 11-21-2008, 06:21 AM   #82
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by indiana journey:
Did I read that Toyota's top executives divided 13 to 14 million among themseives for their yearly compensation? Did I read that Toyota was among the auotmobile manufacturers asking for financial assistance in Europe? Somehow this seems to say that everything isn't as good as some of you seem to think with Toyota. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Citation of your source would be appreciated.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by indiana journey:
Maybe it is the financial crisis not the American auto companies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think anyone would argue that the global financial crisis isn't affecting almost all corporations. That notwithstanding, Toyota remains profitable. The Big 3 are not. See below:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Toyota Motor Corporation has announced its financial results for the first half of fiscal year (FY) 2008/09, showing that its profits plunged by around half, leading it to lower its forecast for the full year significantly. For the six months ending 30 September, the automaker's sales revenues slipped by 6.3% year-on-year (y/y) to 12.19 trillion (US$122.8 billion), as the overall number of vehicles sold during the period slipped by 51,000 units to 4.25 million. Operating income tumbled by 54.2% y/y to 582 billion, including a 300-billion loss as a result of the Japanese yen appreciating against the U.S. dollar, a 90-billion downturn as a result of its marketing activities, and a 40-billion expenditure as part of its cost-reduction efforts. Net profits for the period also fell, by 47.6% y/y to 493.4 billion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Old 11-21-2008, 06:26 AM   #83
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CNN, MSNBC YAHOO. Keep reading and listeneng to the news. Indiana Journey
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:32 AM   #84
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Since you made the allegation, would you like to provide a link to your source? Generalizations become much more credible if the source material supporting them is available for review by the reader.

It's sorta like me saying, "The average global temperature increased 15 degF in the month of October." That's a pretty incredible claim that really needs to have the supporting data available if it is to have a chance to stand.

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