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Old 11-21-2008, 05:49 AM   #85
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I'd be far more willing to give Toyota some money than I would to GM, because I think they would invest the money better for a greater result for everyone involved. How do I know this for sure? Because they haven't asked for it! And that's because they know the strings attached from Washington would keep them from ever being able to make enough money to pay back the loans. While GM has run to 'Big Mama Washington' for a big smothering hug, Toyota has concentrated on making products people want and when people don't want them, they stop making them.

That's smart. That usually means its a good investment.

I'm not saying we should give Toyota money, I'm just saying that when people say "US Auto Manufacturing", I just don't know what that means. Is that the old companies in Detroit, or is that autos that are built in the US? Toyota is built here, Honda, Subaru, and Nissan, are they US Auto Manufacter's? Why not? the CEO of Nissan isnt Japanese, he's Carlos Ghosn, a Brazilian Lebanese guy who used to work for a French Company. Technically, Nissan is half French now since the merger with Renault, yet no one thinks of Nissan as anything other than a Japanese company. This seems wrong to me.

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Old 11-21-2008, 07:43 AM   #86
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Rusty, The questions which I asked about Toyota and their CEO and executives were reported on CNBC Nov 20,2008. They were on the Trader Triple play program. I asked these questions because I wann't sure if I heard them right on the program. Sorry I didn't report the source when I asked the questions. Indiana Journey

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Old 11-21-2008, 08:04 AM   #87
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OK, I searched but couldn't find that on the CNBC website. Thanks for the comeback.

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Old 11-21-2008, 09:02 AM   #88
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I have come up empty handed also searching for the story abot Toyota. I have searched on CNN, MSN, MSNBC and Yahoo,with no luck. I would like to be able to find the source and read more about it. Can you help us out?

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Old 11-21-2008, 03:35 PM   #89
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i read that this year Toyota was giving 13 billion in bonuses,
but i can't remember if that might have been to all shareholders, not just the CEO's, and in yen(?), not dollars,
it was publicized i just can't quickly find the article,
but the '13' part was correct and it was this year too
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:32 PM   #90
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Frankly, I don't have a lot of heartburn over Toyota giving bonuses since:

1. They're still making money, and

2. They're not begging Congress for taxpayer money.

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Old 11-21-2008, 07:17 PM   #91
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I really believe that deinflation needs to take hold before we can change things. Prices have to come down to adjust to wages before we can expect things to normalize. That's my nickel!
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:41 AM   #92
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Check out this video. More evidence of how we are being left in the dust. Pay particular attention to the audio at end .

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Old 11-22-2008, 12:50 PM   #93
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Lotsa people here need a refresher course in Civics 101, Economics 101 and Constitution 101. Else, we go to Socialism 101!
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Old 11-22-2008, 01:09 PM   #94
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What that film clip shows is quality production techniques (Just In Time [JIT]) and others offered up by W. Edwards Deming right after WWII. Without exception, American manufacturers poo-pooed his model and would not even entertain trying them out. Only did the Japanese (specifically auto manufacturers) follow his suggestions.

We are now paying the price. I was an ASQC certified quality engineer for a few years and finally got sick and tired of trying to fix problems after the product was sold. In Japan, any line worker can halt the production process at will to fix a perceived problem.

I worked in the semiconductor business (Motorola, Siemens, Med-Tronics) and the crap they all pulled re:quality, made me sick. Only at Med-Tronics was quality considered and Motorola where ONE customer (IBM) demanded it, did quality reign supreme.

That and the reference to Unions refusing to allow for efficient production methods have changed us from an industrial leader to a 3rd rate economic force.

Japan pays people to work, here we pay union workers to be union workers so they can bribe the union bosses to be able to bribe the union bosses.

Dig it?
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Old 11-22-2008, 01:46 PM   #95
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I saw a talking head today on TV that said, "We should give the automotive industry the loans they are looking for provided they bring all the jobs outside the country back into the US." Canadian autoworkers have been close to Detroit for many years. Do we take their jobs too?

Interesting but flawed unless you can get a US autoworker to work for wages that are just at or slightly above minimum wage. Here's a concept, 1st protect the autoworker's home, allow him to have an acceptable level of medical coverage for his family and cut everyone's wages by 50% for 2 years including management.

I think that's a plan that deserves a loan. Well at least it's a plan ... we haven't seen one from Detroit yet.

Personally; "You can have my North American built - GM vehicle when you pry my cold dead fingers off the steering wheel." What's next mom's apple pie? I do not want to be left with the choice of having to buy a Toyota or a Nissan. (etc.)

I'm mad as anyone can be and I'm not going to take it anymore! Buying $1.77 gasoline is gratifying and upsetting all at the same time. I want to know what in the heck is going on around here?
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:39 AM   #96
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
I want to know what in the heck is going on around here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
American workers are to greedy.

It would be great to have more items Made in the U.S.A. but none of us could afford the price of the products.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:53 AM   #97
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Deming did meet with Ford execs in the late 80’s and early 90's but they wanted to or were forced to ignore many of his 14 points and 7 deadly diseases in the US facilities. Glad to see they did apply them elsewhere.

I hope it not too late for the American automakers but they have mixed their own poison and must suffer the consequences on their own. The “big 3” are like drug addicts and must hit bottom before they truly understand the need to change their behavior. Giving cash to an addict is only supporting destructive behavior.
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:35 AM   #98
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n article in "The New Republic" by Jonathan Cohn kind of explains a lot of the things going on in the auto business. It's titled Assembly Line, it's in the Nov 21, 2008 edition. Indiana Journey

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