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Old 11-18-2012, 04:55 PM   #85
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I think unions are a good thing as long as those in charge go at negotiating with an open mind and the long term best interest of their constituency in mind.

We thought the same thing about politics, and look what it got us.......


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Old 11-18-2012, 06:20 PM   #86
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It is all a secret government plot by the people at "The Center for Science in the Public Interest". They have been trying to get all the "good food" banned and weren't having much luck. They plotted with the union to shut Hostess down.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:49 PM   #87
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Palehorse89...

Looks like your boss is a very busy man and on can of course question his net worth and how he got it, but it does look like he has been successful at what he does and many people are employed as a result.

I agree that it is really hard to take away benefits once there are in place, especially those that were fought for regardless that they were not sustainable long term. That's exactly the problem we have with Medicare, Medicaid, SS, and now the affordable care act. The numbers going forward do not add up but we have them and have to deal with their impact. A lot of people will be unhappy.

But at then end of the day we can have an RC Cola and a Moon Pie (not made by Hostess BTW) and look over the pond and relax. This last comment just so we stay on topic.... ;-)
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:56 PM   #88
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Tom, let me go round up one of those hostess cherry pies(my favorite) before they are gone and I will see you down at the pond...... Thanks
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:59 PM   #89
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Some more interesting reading http://www.politicususa.com/romney-v...ss-unions.html
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:04 PM   #90
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Unions were necessary 100 years ago, not so much now.
I started working for the WA DOT in 1968. No union. We didn't get any coffee breaks, lunch time was a laughing matter, were required to drive our personal vehicles to the jobsite, come in early and stay late to stock the work trucks and anything else they could do to us. All of which were required for non state workers by state law. Finally got unionized and got the same benefits as others got under state law.
Now I'm retired from that job since 1998, sure glad I have the retirement though!
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:07 PM   #91
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And I make $9.19 and hour now! That's minimum wage in WA. I'd love to make $20 an hour again, even packing Ding Dongs!

According to the news today a Mexican buyer might buy the rights to Twinkies and of course move all the production to Mexico. Good job Bakers unions!
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:00 PM   #92
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And I make $9.19 and hour now! That's minimum wage in WA. I'd love to make $20 an hour again, even packing Ding Dongs!
Thought you said you were retired? So if you are retired from the state, drawing a pension, full medical benefits, and have a job. Sweet!

Coming from a right to work state (and all states should be) I personally think public sector unions should either be illegal or at a minimum not allowed to contribute to or back (internally or externally) any political party or candidate, and employees should have the right not to join. It is idiotic that public sector unions can help elect the people they negotiate contracts with. Labor laws have come a long way since the 60's, although sometimes enforcement has not.

This is not to say that public employees should not have the same work rules as non-union private sector workers as required by both state and federal law. We ask a lot of our public workers and they should be treated fairly.

I also think that public pensions (if any vs. defined contribution) should be based on a retirement age. You start working for the state at age 20 and after 30 years you want to quit. Great. You now have 15-20 years of productive work years ahead of you doing something else. Your pension should be based on 30 years service but you can't draw it until you reach retirement age as defined by SS as an example. It makes no sense to allow someone to draw a pension for longer than they worked.

Hostess having to pay $100,000,000 a year into a pension plan might have contributed to them not being able to stay in business. Many states and cities are finding out the same is true for them.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:06 PM   #93
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All of this over Twinkies...
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:07 PM   #94
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And I make $9.19 and hour now! That's minimum wage in WA. I'd love to make $20 an hour again, even packing Ding Dongs!

According to the news today a Mexican buyer might buy the rights to Twinkies and of course move all the production to Mexico. Good job Bakers unions!
The Mexican buyer would be Bimbo Bakeries USA - U.S. Division of Grupo Bimbo - Arnold, Bimbo, Boboli, Brownberry, Entenmann's, Francisco, Freihofer's, Marinela, Mrs Baird's, Oroweat, Stroehmann, Thomas', Tia Rosa They started out making a Wonder Bread like bread, and have a line of junk pastries that would gag a maggot. And they have plenty of plants around the US to make the product.

How does one afford a Dutch Star on $9.19/hour?
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:13 PM   #95
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From The Sacramento Bee

Hostess Continues Pattern Of Misinformation



By Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union

Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union
Last modified: 2012-11-13T22:12:25Z
Published: Tuesday, Nov. 13, 2012 - 2:12 pm

Copyright 2012 . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
KENSINGTON, Md., Nov. 13, 2012 -- /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- In a desperate attempt to break the solidarity and resolve of striking BCTGM members across the country, Hostess Brands is falsely claiming that its decision to close three of its bakeries -- St. Louis, Cincinnati and Seattle -- is the result of the nationwide strike against the company by BCTGM members.
In fact, according to the company's 1113 filing with the bankruptcy court earlier this year as well as its last/best/final and non-negotiable proposal to its BCTGM-represented workers, the company was planning to close at least nine bakeries as part of its reorganization plan, although the company refused to disclose which bakeries it intended to close. This is in addition to the three bakeries that were to be closed as a result of the company's planned sale of its Merita division.
Moreover, St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay was quoted in a November 13 KMOX-CBS St. Louis article stating, "I was told months ago they were planning on closing the site in St. Louis… And there was no indication at that time it had anything to do with the strike the workers were waging."
BCTGM International Union President Frank Hurt stated, "The recent claim by Hostess CEO Greg Rayburn that our strike is the reason for the closure of the three bakeries is simply not true. That statement is a continuation of a disturbing pattern by the company of issuing public statements that are erroneous at best and disingenuous at worst.
"Our members rejected the company's outrageous proposal by 92 percent in September. Rejection came from every corner of the country. They were being asked to vote on a proposal with massive concessions, knowing that their plant could very well be one of those to be closed.
"Our members are on strike because they have had enough. They are not willing to take draconian wage and benefit cuts on top of the significant concessions they made in 2004 and give up their pension so that the Wall Street vulture capitalists in control of this company can walk away with millions of dollars."
Over the past eight years since the first Hostess bankruptcy, BCTGM members have watched as money from previous concessions that was supposed to go towards capital investment, product development, plant improvement and new equipment, was squandered in executive bonuses, payouts to Wall Street investors and payments to high-priced attorneys and consultants.
BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.
Over the past 15 months, Hostess workers have seen the company unilaterally end contractually-obligated payments to their pension plan. Despite saving more than $160 million with this action, the company continues to fall deeper and deeper into debt. A mountain of debt and gross mismanagement by a string of failed CEO's with no true experience in the wholesale baking business have left this company unable to compete or survive.
A total of 24 Hostess production facilities are on strike or honoring the strike with picket lines established by striking Hostess workers at other BCTGM-represented facilities. Additionally, BCTGM members at one transport facility also are on strike. Company claims that union members are crossing picket lines and maintaining production at striking plants are vastly untrue.
The BCTGM represents more than 80,000 workers in the baking, food processing, grain milling and tobacco industries in the United States and Canada.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:20 PM   #96
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Yep. It is the Unions fault.

Brian Driscoll, CEO, around $750,000 to $2,550,000.
Gary Wandschneider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000.
John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000.
David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256.
Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256.
Richard Seban, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256.
John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000.
Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000.
Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000.
Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 to $273,008.

Gregory Rayburn - Management and Career

The Unions Didn’t Take Your Twinkies: Goldman Sachs Asset Strippers Did « American Everyman

It was Romney Vulture Capitalist Style Management that Killed Hostess, Not Unions
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:43 PM   #97
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SWEEEEEET, it looks like we're finally done with everything being Bush's fault.


ROMNEY TOOK MY TWINKIES





I'm a celiac, so I'm not out anything.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:53 PM   #98
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SWEEEEEET, it looks like we're finally done with everything being Bush's fault.


ROMNEY TOOK MY TWINKIES





I'm a celiac, so I'm not out anything.
They blame everyone but themselves
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