|
|
05-06-2012, 02:30 PM
|
#43
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,415
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymen
Well said Senior Chief.
James
|
Damn. Straight! Finally said right
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
05-06-2012, 02:51 PM
|
#44
|
Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in the woods in Belfair, WA, WA
Posts: 1,250
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelheadbluesman
Excuse me? Depletion Allowance write-offs? It's a sizable tax break. They had an important role many decades ago, but no longer. I think your response is a little harsh, Chief.... but, you're not alone in this.
|
I'm confused by what you're trying to say. The depletion allowance, like depreciation, is a form of cost recovery for capital investments.
Is depreciation for capital equipment something that "had an important role many decades ago, but no longer" as well?
Perhaps if a person hasn't actually run a business, one may not realize that a large number of costs relating to running that business are written off as "tax breaks".
If as a cheese manufacturer, I spend $1000 for a machine to help me make cheese, each year I can recover part of that purchase price (the machine becomes less valuable as I use it)- that's depreciation.
If, as an oil company, I spend $1000 on an oil lease, each year I can recover part of the value of the oil I pumped out (the well is less valuable after I remove oil)- that's depletion.
These tax write-offs are naturally important to industry- do you advocate letting the cheese industry (which makes a greater percentage of profit than oil companies) keep depreciation allowances but force the energy industry give up depletion allowances? What would be your rationale?
Do you believe other manufacturing industries are "subsidized" by depreciation write-offs?
__________________
Life rocks when your house rolls
Senior Chief & the Cheese Queen
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 03:04 PM
|
#45
|
Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in the woods in Belfair, WA, WA
Posts: 1,250
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelheadbluesman
I think your response is a little harsh, Chief.... but, you're not alone in this.
|
I apologize if I seemed harsh. Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Folks seem able to believe some very contradictory things, as long as they feed into the class envy/business hatred/condemn success meme so popular right now.
Here's the thing: I don't love the oil industry, but I do like facts.
Bumpy, inconvenient things, aren't they? They don't work as well on a bumper sticker as slogans though... imagine this on the back of your Prius;
"Depreciation allowances are not subsidies- the Child Tax Credit IS a subsidy"
Sounds like an IRS publication.
__________________
Life rocks when your house rolls
Senior Chief & the Cheese Queen
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 03:50 PM
|
#46
|
Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ann Arbor Michigan
Posts: 792
|
A few days ago an article was printed in the local paper. GM, Ford, and Chrysler paid $0 in income taxes to the federal government for 2011. They were allowed to use losses from the previous year and in GM's case,losses of the bankruptcy from last year. The GM, Ford, and Chrysler profits from the first quarter of this year were in the billions. I guess the oil companies and other big corporations (GE?) get a lot more write offs that we the average citizens will never see.....And to top it off none are lowering prices.
__________________
2005 Suncruiser Banks Powerpack
Chocolate lab (Buster) 2007 Jeep Wrangler
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 05:13 PM
|
#47
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 346
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
Unspoken in this chat about gasoline and oil prices is the effect of monetary policy on the "price" in dollars, and what actually backs our "quantitatively eased" paper dollars.
When I was a kid, gas generally ran about 25 cents a gallon- paid for with a silver quarter (which is worth about $5.50 in silver today).
|
When I went to work in 1964 minimum wage was 68 cents per hour gas was 22 cents a gallon. 3 gallons for an hours work. Gas $4.50 a gallon. Minimum wage $7.25 about 1.6 gallons per hours work. Since none us pay for gas with gold, I'd say that's a more accurate comparison
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 06:33 PM
|
#48
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 967
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
I apologize if I seemed harsh. Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Folks seem able to believe some very contradictory things, as long as they feed into the class envy/business hatred/condemn success meme so popular right now.
Here's the thing: I don't love the oil industry, but I do like facts.
Bumpy, inconvenient things, aren't they? They don't work as well on a bumper sticker as slogans though... imagine this on the back of your Prius;
"Depreciation allowances are not subsidies- the Child Tax Credit IS a subsidy"
Sounds like an IRS publication.
|
Why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good rant?
__________________
Jack & Maggie
04-Rexhall Roseair (37)
Cummins ISC / Spartan
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 07:56 PM
|
#49
|
Senior Member
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zigzag, OR
Posts: 1,063
|
Depreciation and depletion write offs are not the same animals. Oil is not a capital asset in the same way as the drilling rig that extracts it from the ground. The oil companies depreciate all their capital investments, like equipment, trucks, etc., just like other companies and industries. But no one else gets a depletion allowance. Why is that? Special treatment?
Depletion write-downs, as I said earlier, were probably a good thing - originally. But they were based on the idea that known oil reserves would be depleted in a matter of years. Since then, not only have they NOT been depleted, but those reserves have ballooned beyond anyone's expectations.
However, that's not what I took issue with. Your argument was that Big Oil doesn't get any tax breaks. I say they do. I'm not saying they shouldn't get some breaks, hell everybody does, right? Even me, even you. All I said was that they get tax breaks. And, personally, I think the "special treatment' of depletion allowances is a bit outdated. My opinion, and I have a right to it. And yes, I think your comments are a bit harsh.
__________________
'07 Itasca 35L/W22 FULL-TIMING
1000 Trails - VFW - 5 Yrs Army
"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST"
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 08:05 PM
|
#50
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,415
|
Not entirely true several other businesses get them. mines and rock quarries are just two.
Anything with non- returning assets gets them
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 08:12 PM
|
#51
|
Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Avon Lake, Oh
Posts: 2,958
|
Well everyone, oil is down to $95 a barrel due to the elections in France and Greece.
__________________
2000 HOLIDAY RAMBLER ENDEAVOR
40 FT--330HP CAT
2 SLIDES-TOAD 2012 focus
Fulltime-Home is where we park it.
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 08:58 PM
|
#52
|
Senior Member
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zigzag, OR
Posts: 1,063
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by laj
Not entirely true several other businesses get them. mines and rock quarries are just two.
Anything with non- returning assets gets them
|
You are correct, also timber companies. All I've been saying is that depletion allowances are tax breaks beyond, and in addition to, depreciation.... And in a VERY healthy and profitable industry, it may be time to take another look. That's all, folks. My 2 cents....
__________________
'07 Itasca 35L/W22 FULL-TIMING
1000 Trails - VFW - 5 Yrs Army
"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST"
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 09:59 PM
|
#53
|
Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in the woods in Belfair, WA, WA
Posts: 1,250
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelheadbluesman
You are correct, also timber companies. All I've been saying is that depletion allowances are tax breaks beyond, and in addition to, depreciation.... And in a VERY healthy and profitable industry, it may be time to take another look. That's all, folks. My 2 cents....
|
Oil leases, timber stands and and gravel pits are capital assets that lose value as the "whatever" is extracted.
Why should these capital assets be treated in a completely different way than other capital assets? Because the industry as a whole is profitable? Because you think gasoline costs too much?
__________________
Life rocks when your house rolls
Senior Chief & the Cheese Queen
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 10:04 PM
|
#54
|
Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in the woods in Belfair, WA, WA
Posts: 1,250
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by henderson
When I went to work in 1964 minimum wage was 68 cents per hour gas was 22 cents a gallon. 3 gallons for an hours work. Gas $4.50 a gallon. Minimum wage $7.25 about 1.6 gallons per hours work. Since none us pay for gas with gold, I'd say that's a more accurate comparison
|
The Federal minimum wage in 1964 was $1.25/hour, which is what I made at my first "real" job. It bought at least 5 gallons of gas, up to 10 gallons when we had price wars.
I'm not disputing that you made 62 cents an hour, just that it was not actually the minimum wage.
__________________
Life rocks when your house rolls
Senior Chief & the Cheese Queen
|
|
|
05-06-2012, 11:04 PM
|
#55
|
Senior Member
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zigzag, OR
Posts: 1,063
|
Too much for me, I'll unsubscribe from this thread....
__________________
'07 Itasca 35L/W22 FULL-TIMING
1000 Trails - VFW - 5 Yrs Army
"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST"
|
|
|
05-07-2012, 04:00 AM
|
#56
|
Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 671
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallyrver
You don't see much in the media about profit margins...
Oil Company Income Versus Other Industries
The graphic shows the most recent data available on the profit margins of various major industries for 2011. During this period, the profit margin of U.S. oil and gas companies (6.7 cents per sales dollar) was below the average profit margin for all manufacturing industries (9.2 cents per sales dollar). Industry classes ranking well above oil and gas companies included beverages/tobacco, computers/peripherals and pharmaceuticals/medicines. Back to top
Profit Dollars at Work
Oil company profits are used primarily for two purposes: to pay dividends to shareholders in the business and to pay for capital investments to find, produce, process and transport energy products to consumers. From time to time, oil companies also may use available cash to pay down debt and to buy back shares of their stock to help enhance its value for investors.
Shareholder Dividends. Millions of Americans own stock in oil companies either directly as shareholders, as owners of mutual fund shares or as participants in pension fund and other retirement accounts. Each year, dividends paid by oil companies put hundreds of millions of dollars into the hands of the public.
|
Thank you for posting this little known fact. Very few people understand the difference between profit and profit margin. You tell me why the media touts "big profits" by the oil companies but doesn't give the comparison between them and other profitable companies.... Hmmm...
__________________
92' Holiday Rambler 1000
The wife, me and two furry kids
If you have it, a truck brought it.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|