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Old 09-30-2008, 03:20 AM   #15
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Barnum is a nice way of putting it. This is the very rich guy buying a right of way from South Dakota to Arizona for a water pipeline. He is the next in a long line of "Barnums" that are gonna turn the desert into a garden spot. Ask Phoenix, now one of the worst spots for allergies and you're not allowed certain types of landscaping.
Hey, 'ol Boone is just looking for a dollar. However he is looking in your pocket.
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:51 PM   #16
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I'm with SeetheUSA!

TBP doesn't profess his project as THE answer, but he sees it as a start--something to do now, if we resolve to do the rest, i.e. higher efficiencies, renewables, tire pressures, drill and (insert your favorite here). There just isn't one answer to the dilemma, at least for right now.

We gotta do something. If we do nothing while waiting for an all-encompassing miracle to appear, we're toast.

Steve
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:16 PM   #17
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doc:
Anyone have any idea the pressure necessary to liquify natural gas? Figure it has to be pretty high. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Either high pressure or very cold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNG
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Old 10-01-2008, 04:01 AM   #18
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One issue about CNG that I don't see addressed satisfactorily is that of supply. If we shift 10% of our vehicles to CNG as Pickens suggests, we will put tremendous pressure on our supply. Even if the supply is domestic and even if it increases with the increased demand, IMO the price will also increase. Many people who rely on natural gas to heat their homes will see big increases in heating costs the same as we saw increases in the price of food because of the use of so much farm land to grow corn for ethanol.
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Old 10-01-2008, 04:34 AM   #19
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I'm from the NJ and really don't know that much about oil & gas other than it comes from the fuel pump.
Now my question is when the NEWS show pictures of oil rigs we see this large plume of flame coming from the top of the rigs-is this not Natural gas that they are burning-if it is why don't they send it to a storage tank[s] or is it that we don't have enough storage tanks for all the NG that come out of the ground.
If it is, TBP must be burning up a lot of NG he could be selling.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:02 AM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doc:
Anyone have any idea the pressure necessary to liquify natural gas? Figure it has to be pretty high. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>CNG is not LNG. The presure in a CNG tank when full is abought 3500# and a tank 18" in diameter and 3' long would run a 4 cyl. fork lift abought 6 hours. The problem you have are with the presure reg. They require a lot of maint. and leak more than I would won't. It is a good clean fuel but it is not practical for a family car.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:44 AM   #21
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Ok, thanks. Figured it would be liquid like propane. Friend retired from Norfolk Navy yard rebuilding and overhauling submarines used to talk about pressure necessary to liquify gases and the methods they used. VERY complex and expensive, figured the same process would work for natural gas except for the huge amount to set up a compressor station.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:25 PM   #22
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I found this about the company. I know Mr. Pickens is interested comerical fleets.

Clean Energy Fuels Corp. provides natural gas as an alternative fuel for vehicle fleets in the United States and Canada. It designs, builds, finances, and operates fueling stations and supplies compressed natural gas and liquefied natural gas. The company serves approximately 275 fleet customers operating 14,000 natural gas vehicles in public transit, refuse hauling, airports, taxis, seaports, and regional trucking markets. As of December 31, 2007, Clean Energy Fuels Corp. owned and operated 170 natural gas fueling stations in Arizona, California, Colorado, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, Texas, Washington, Georgia, Wyoming, and Canada. The company was incorporated in 2001 and is based in Seal Beach, California.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:56 AM   #23
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The reasonable thing about the Pickens Plan is that at least someone has been bold enough to come forward with a plan for us to talk about. That's a heck of a lot more than our Congress has done for us.

Sure it is a bold plan with a lot of obstacles, probably not the best plan, or the most doable, an yes it will line his pockets, but it is a place to start. You have to admit it does increase domestic oil production short term while we are building our infrastructure to support alternatives and then goes to renewable alternative fuels in the long term.

Just some thoughts.

Spike
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:43 PM   #24
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The main thing that most people do not realize is that the energy solution does not have one answer...it will need to be address with multiple approaches unless someone can come up with the magic pill that will be nearly perfect and FREE.

So, CNG power is part of the answer,,,but by far not all of the answer.

Ken
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:55 AM   #25
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Ever wonder why T.Boone is spending 10's of millions of dollars in TV advertising? Something is rotting in Denmark.
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:23 AM   #26
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DonavonP:
Ever wonder why T.Boone is spending 10's of millions of dollars in TV advertising? Something is rotting in Denmark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, he's always been heavily involved in and is currently heavily invested in the natural gas business.

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Old 10-04-2008, 05:53 AM   #27
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as a firefighter i sure don't want to pull up on car fires powered by LP or NG. it was bad enough when truss roofs and floors became commonplace. this project is another that will contribute to a higher line of duty death rate in the fire service.
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:24 AM   #28
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You are right John, A little heat and you could have a big fireball, with metal flying everywhere. Mr. Pickens is wanting comerical business. He has signed contracts with several airports and city buses. I saw the other day that Crysler corp. is going to offer the cars that run on electric for 40 miles next year. GM Volt suppose to be out on 2010.
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