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Old 09-18-2014, 12:08 PM   #1
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Please Write Subway

Last week in Paterson, NJ a Subway rest. mgr refused to allow a disabled Veteran bring his therapy dog into the shop. Mgr (a muslim) stated that dogs are dirty. I have gone online to Subway.com and told their customer service that I would like to know what Subway will do to make sure this does not happen again. If all of you Irv2 members contact them we can make an impression and support our warriers

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Old 09-18-2014, 01:35 PM   #2
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What is a therapy dog? Are they the same as a service dog used by handicapped persons?

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Old 09-18-2014, 01:40 PM   #3
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Therapy dogs provide assistance for vets with PTSD and TBI. We just had a wonderful testimony as to the value of these precious animals to the vets here at the IRV2 National Rally from former US Marines who have PTSD. These veterans are gaining valuable support from therapy dogs provided by Paws for Vets.

Therapy dogs are used for a variety of purposes..... they are used to provide comfort and support to hospitalized patients (children and adults), residents of nursing homes, rehab centers, and people in similar circumstances. These dogs are a true blessing to those in need.

I will certainly send a message with my feelings to Subway.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:47 PM   #4
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In California there are codes re bringing dogs into resturaunts. Not that I do not sympathize with someone who has fought for our country and is disabled, but this came up before and the person in question did not have the proper documentation and was asked to leave.The owners also need to worry about all their other customers too, many who prefer not to eat with dogs.

If this is a dog for a blind person I can see your reason to be upset, but we have had numerous people people try to bring their dogs into resturaunts when there was no obvious reason, staing they were therapy or "companion' dogs. If they had documentation then the resturaunt owner would alow it, if no documentation they would be asked to leave. If they didn't do this many people would take advantage and bring their dogs in just because they think it's fun to take their dog in a resturaunt. And then where do you draw the line, ie high end dining establishment allowing dogs in. Again I am all for supporting our wounded Veterans, but many non veterans/non wounded have taken advantage of this.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:05 PM   #5
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Good points all Mike and Charlotte
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:42 PM   #6
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Asking Subway what they are going to do to make sure a disabled vet is not refused service because of service dog is a very important question. Americans With Disabilities Act, states that a disabled person can not be refused service/entry due to having a service animal.

I think the vet should have stood his/her ground and not left the store. Subway manager needs an education. The vet has a course of action that can be taken to ensure Subway gets the message.

I like to believe this was just a managers misinformed action and not policy of Subway.
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:11 PM   #7
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We have a certified therapy dog and are tested every two years. Even with that, we are not allowed entrance to most establishments and especially restaurants. If the dog is a service dog, then the dog is allowed but just saying your dog is a Therapy dog does not give you any special rights. Here is the ADA Definition of a Service Dog
Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:21 PM   #8
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There is a difference between a "service animal" and a "therapy animal." Service animals are allowed on the New York City subway system, for example, and therapy animals are not. Here is how the MTA defines the two:

“Service animal” means a guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability that such person is unable to perform due to such disability, such as guiding persons with impaired vision, alerting persons with impaired hearing to sounds, pulling a wheelchair, retrieving dropped items or providing rescue assistance. The term service animal does not include a therapy animal or animal used for emotional support.

Did this veteran have a service dog or a therapy dog? If it was a therapy dog, then it wouldn't be allowed on the New York City literal subway, either, and that has nothing to do with Sharia law.

Also, this is from the Dept of Veterans Affairs website:

VA has started a research study to determine if there are things a dog can do for a Veteran with PTSD that would qualify the animal as a Service Dog for PTSD. The study is expected to take several years to complete.

It sounds to me like dogs that help with PTSD aren't service dogs. That's not to say they're not useful or valuable, but if they're not actual service dogs, then they don't have automatic permission to enter anywhere dogs would not otherwise be allowed.

As Mike and Cha said, people are playing pretty fast and loose with companion dogs. They think a therapy dog, or a dog that provides them emotional support, should be allowed anywhere a service dog is.

Or they're like the woman who wrote this: Confession: My ?Service Dog? Is a Total Fraud She justified her fraudulent service dog credentials by saying, "Frankly, I just really like having my dog with me. Is that so bad?"

I remember first becoming suspicious about service dogs a couple of years ago when I was at an outdoor event and a woman had a dog with her that had on a "service animal" vest, but the dog didn't act like any service animal I'd ever seen--it was jumping around, pulling on the leash, and barking. I thought, "Hmm...I bet she just bought that vest somewhere."

So like Mike and Cha I'm okay with people not accepting, on face value, a vest that says "service animal." And I'm okay (actually more than okay) with restaurants not allowing therapy dogs in, whether the person with the therapy dog is a veteran or not.

Edited to add: Thanks for posting that link, JSPERELLA. I found this part really interesting:

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.

I wonder how the woman with the faked credentials would answer the question, "What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?" Of course, I don't see a list of "correct" answers, so I guess it's still up to the establishment whether the dog "qualifies" as a service dog, which really isn't a great solution.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:02 PM   #9
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Therapy dogs are not allowed every were, period. I have a service dog, she is used for PTSD as wells as mobility issues and can go every where I need her too. Even though I don't agree with the vet being kicked out,the manager has the right. I too am a disabled vet (only 32 and retired) and have been asked many times if my dog is a service dog because of the fakes out there. Most people don't even know my dog is there, I was taught to treat her as a brief case in public. I get tested every two years to maintain her certification the the organization that I got her from, even thought there is no national certification, or state for that matter. It is the people that fake service animals that ruin it for the real ones.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:11 PM   #10
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Many times a disabled Veteran does not have a "visible" disability. Those dogs are trained to help with the mental problems of these Veterans by sensing a problem so they can stop it before most people would notice. Could this be a hoax by a non caring Veteran? maybe, but not likely in my opinion.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:06 AM   #11
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I hate these types of situations... why does the minority always seem to ruin it for the majority...

I think there should be an insanely high fine for anyone who tries to pass their "pet" off as a service animal...
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:25 PM   #12
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I once met an RVer in Church, .. how did I know him... Recognized his therapy dog.

I have seen people complain about a dog in a restaurant.. Of course when I called the dog, and its human by name and made a comment or two the complainers tried to vanish (Do not know why they should do that Mary could not see them.. The puppy could, as could I , but Mary could not) .

Laws vary from state to state.. MOST all states do allow "Seeing Eye Dogs" into restaurants and such.. However laws regarding other kinds of service animals are a big behind.. A therapy dog is one such animal.

That said.. IF the dog is clearly a service animal.. I would not have a problem with him (All dogs by the way are HIMS.. and if you want to know what a female of the species is called.. Well a dog is a son of a ----H)
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Old 09-20-2014, 11:55 AM   #13
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Subways are mainly franchises and individually owned and operated. There are a lot of wonderful therapy dogs and unfortunately there are people who try to game the system and give them all a bad name. Very hard to tell the difference. You can buy the "vests" on line.
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:17 PM   #14
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Plus, you have to ask if the vet could not be without his "therapy" dog for the few minutes it would take to get his meal and leave...or even if he ate the meal there in the restaurant.

I'm a great admirer of "service" dogs as they go through months of specialized training before they are given to the disabled person who deserves one. However, I don't think that those people who feel that they just can't do without their dog when they go into eating establishments or grocery stores are doing a great discredit to those service dogs and their owners.

FWIW, I am a vet and can sympathize with my fellow vets who did not come back the same person as they were when they left.


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