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Old 12-21-2011, 12:25 PM   #57
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As you can see I'm a Canadian. I have two very good friends I see at a resort on Hilton Head Island every year. One is definitely an R and the other one definitely a D. I had noticed they avoid discussing politics by all means. I know that their friendship would most likely end if they did and that would be too bad... I've seen a few threads here turn sour very quickly as soon as the rules of IRV2 are broken. Friendly people just become nasty...
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:27 PM   #58
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And if the gun threads hadn't turned nasty the rules wouldn't have been changed.


So who's to blame, irv2's management or ??????
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:57 PM   #59
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:48 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by daveshan View Post
And if the gun threads hadn't turned nasty the rules wouldn't have been changed.


So who's to blame, irv2's management or ??????
There is plenty of blame to go around, if assigning blame will help. Ultimately, though, moderators are tasked with keeping the conversation civil and on-topic. A huge, largely thankless task. (thanks! ) Impossible? I don't think so. The community could help out by trying to engage in civility in their discourse, being respectful of others with differing opinions, and trying not to stray too far from the thread topics. I know that's too much to ask of some, that's why we need moderators.

I did a quick, semi-accurate tally of the first 10 pages of the 'guns' thread, and found 63 for and 10 against. That would seem to suggest that a large number of us here have an interest in this topic, and that it relates directly to the focus of this forum. Hence my opinion that banning discussion of that topic just because it's difficult to moderate is bad for iRV2, and the RVing community.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:06 PM   #61
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Again it's not the topic of, guns, religion, or politics it's where the posts always seem to go in very short order.

The intent behind iRV2 is for an enjoyable place to discuss RVing and related fields which the above do include, but just like you would put a guard rail at a dangerous curve to prevent accidents that is what was done here with the current rules.

The current Community Rules are to make this an enjoyable site to participate at. As noted several times rules would not be needed if posters were simply civil with their postings and since a few can not seem to post with in those limitations adaptation of the rules were needed.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:29 PM   #62
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A few minutes ago I dropped into the forum without signing in and up pops an add for "Obama hoods" with minium donation of $55.00. We can't talk politics but its ok to campaign?? I don't get it.


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Old 12-21-2011, 02:45 PM   #63
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Again it's not the topic of, guns, religion, or politics it's where the posts always seem to go in very short order.

The intent behind iRV2 is for an enjoyable place to discuss RVing and related fields which the above do include, but just like you would put a guard rail at a dangerous curve to prevent accidents that is what was done here with the current rules.

The current Community Rules are to make this an enjoyable site to participate at. As noted several times rules would not be needed if posters were simply civil with their postings and since a few can not seem to post with in those limitations adaptation of the rules were needed.
Understood. Where we disagree is that instead of moderators dealing with the few bad eggs individually, there was a blanket rule put in place that hampers ALL discussion of these relevant, important topics. To extend your analogy, iRV2 did not put up a guard rail, they closed the road. A road that leads to very important, safety related topics, imo.

If everybody limiting their discussion to only those things they agree about is supposed to make iRV2 enjoyable, I respectfully disagree. To me, what makes participating in forums enjoyable is reading and considering the viewpoints of those who do NOT agree with my own. What set iRV2 apart for me was the ability for iRV2 members to "cuss and discuss" about their differing viewpoints without degrading to personal attacks and shouting matches. Other (unnamed) RV forums are a LOT worse than anything I've ever seen happen here. I believe it is the quality of our members and moderators that will ensure it'll never go that way.

I understand that 'closing the road' will eliminate the possibility of people driving off the cliff. It's the easy way to do it, no doubt. A 'guard rail' in the form of patrolling moderators is more difficult, but far, far better for the community and iRV2.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:18 PM   #64
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This forum can be run for less than $100/yr regardless of traffic volume, unless you're paying salaries to somebody. In the web hosting world, traffic volume based pricing is a thing of the past. Even the cheapest hosting packages include unlimited bandwidth, these days.
The cost of forum software licensing alone far exceeds this. Add on chat software licensing, mobile app fees and other basics and it gets to be a hefty pile 'o dough. Keeping a large forum online requires programmers, specialized services and regular tech support. Hosting fees are the least of it....

We have considered having an optional annual supporting membership fee that would allow those members who chose to upgrade their accounts to turn off some advertising.. but that's a whole different discussion
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:22 PM   #65
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We have considered having an optional annual supporting membership fee that would allow those members who chose to upgrade their accounts to turn off some advertising.. but that's a whole different discussion
I like to pay my own way so when I joined I looked all over the site for the link to become a "supporting member" this is the only forum I'm on that doesn't have that feature/option.

It was a shock to say the least to see a forum this size run without funding from the members.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:12 PM   #66
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I like to pay my own way so when I joined I looked all over the site for the link to become a "supporting member" this is the only forum I'm on that doesn't have that feature/option.

It was a shock to say the least to see a forum this size run without funding from the members.
A large forum can be supported by a small backend contingent for a smaller sum of money, provided the owner is a experienced software developer and has server maintenance skills.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:07 PM   #67
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The cost of forum software licensing alone far exceeds this. Add on chat software licensing, mobile app fees and other basics and it gets to be a hefty pile 'o dough. Keeping a large forum online requires programmers, specialized services and regular tech support. Hosting fees are the least of it....

vBulletin is open source. You can CHOOSE to pay a license fee, but you can also choose not to. If you have programmers, you're wasting your money on vBulletin licenses. There are open source chat modules as well.

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Old 12-21-2011, 05:21 PM   #68
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Ramblin, you might want to consider expanding your thinking a bit. Your comment above might have validity if Social Knowledge (forum owner) had only one forum, but that's not the case. The company has a couple of dozen forums by my count. Not exactly a "back of the envelope" operation, thus the need for licenses some programming help.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:35 PM   #69
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I respectfully disagree. To me, what makes participating in forums enjoyable is reading and considering the viewpoints of those who do NOT agree with my own. What set iRV2 apart for me was the ability for iRV2 members to "cuss and discuss" about their differing viewpoints without degrading to personal attacks and shouting matches.

I understand that 'closing the road' will eliminate the possibility of people driving off the cliff. It's the easy way to do it, no doubt. A 'guard rail' in the form of patrolling moderators is more difficult, but far, far better for the community and iRV2.
Quote:
What set iRV2 apart for me was the ability for iRV2 members to "cuss and discuss" about their differing viewpoints without degrading to personal attacks and shouting matches
There is also a rule about discussing moderator actions in the public forums which not only means members can not do it but neither can mods or admins this makes it extremely difficult to show proper reasoning for the updated rules changes. If not for the past unknown to the general membership actions by moderators you would not have had the board you just eluded to.

Quote:
I understand that 'closing the road' will eliminate the possibility of people driving off the cliff. It's the easy way to do it, no doubt. A 'guard rail' in the form of patrolling moderators is more difficult, but far, far better for the community and iRV2.
To have a staff large enough to accomplish this task at times would result in the discussion why are so many moderators needed and why the heavy handed approach to moderation in the very same topics mentioned now, this has happened more than a few times in the past not only on this board but in various others when attempts to find a happy medium for their members have been made.

Dare I say "Catch 22".
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:57 PM   #70
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This thread is not about whether or not anyone's browser will or won't block the ads. It's about making the ad content consistent with the rules that have been defined by the administrators or making the rules consistent with the ad content. You guys solve that and we can all get back to helping each other out.
As others, I have agreed with Graig. Sometimes we spend more time arguing over what we "should or should not" be arguing about.

Lets talk about blowing out lines or using the red stuff...
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