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Old 08-11-2009, 09:40 AM   #29
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Well......I can certainly understand and even embrace all your points of view about not permitting ANY exchanges which flirt with topics having to do with politics or religion. However, I still think that permitting such discussions in a corralled, SEPARATE section, of the iRV2 forums is a healthier policy leading to a more vibrant, flourishing forum site.

Also,... having such a repository section would greatly assist our forum moderators who can quickly and easily move potentially divisive exchanges into the corral where the participants can nip at each other to their hearts content!! Those of us who don't want to discuss or engage in such exchanges would simply NEVER have to go into the Corral (ie., click on that section). In fact.....THE CORRAL....would be a great name for this new iRV2 section.

Ya see.....I still believe that it's more important, and is in keeping with the ideals of America's founders, to champion, encourage, and accomodate "freedom" of expression,...... than to try to ignore it, cull it out from general debate, and/or to generally try to "stifle it" (a Edith was so often told!!! ). They stifled it in Germany back in the 30's and 40's, and elsewhere in our world, and .... the results have NEVER been good. (please NOTE the smiles). Steve
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:47 AM   #30
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For reference, here's what our Community Rules have to say about "stifled political speech":

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About the First Amendment, censorship and your "right to free speech":
You do indeed have an absolute right to free speech. However this forum is privately owned and requires members to abide by our rules and by the decisions of our staff. If you cannot accept these guidelines we encourage you to contact one of the many good web hosting companies out there to and exercise that right to your heart's content.
Please bear in mind that we're not standing on a public street corner exercising our First Amendment free speech right but rather are in an individual's private cyber-home. As such, that individual has every right to request/require that we not smoke in his home, bring alcoholic beverages into his home, bring firearms into his home, etc., even though such actions might be legal elsewhere. IOW, it's his sandbox, and we play by his rules.

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Old 08-11-2009, 10:53 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
Please bear in mind that we're not standing on a public street corner exercising our First Amendment free speech right but rather are in an individual's private cyber-home. As such, that individual has every right to request/require that we not smoke in his home, bring alcoholic beverages into his home, bring firearms into his home, etc., even though such actions might be legal elsewhere. IOW, it's his sandbox, and we play by his rules.

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Excellent analogy.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:32 AM   #32
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To follow up on Rusty's post, the First Amendment states that Congress shall not restrict free speech and the Supreme Court has interpreted the amendment to include the Executive and Judicial branches also.

It is generally accepted that no part of government may restrict free speech.

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
As Rusty notes, the First Amendment doesn't apply to non-governmental organizations.

This topic comes up from time to time and each time the Moderators, Administrators and owners, both past and present, have agreed that political discussions always lead to flaming, personal attacks, etc. and they add nothing to the purpose of this RV oriented web site.

The site's staff does not like to reprimand, suspend, or ban members, edit or delete posts for inappropriate content and past experience demonstrates that political discussions always lead to these actions being necessary.

Respectfully, the creation of a political forum ain't gonna happen here.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Route 66 View Post
This topic comes up from time to time and each time the Moderators, Administrators and owners, both past and present, have agreed that political discussions always lead to flaming, personal attacks, etc. and they add nothing to the purpose of this RV oriented web site . . .
Respectfully, the creation of a political forum ain't gonna happen here.
Thank you! And that should be, "'Nuff Said!" I am stunned and at a loss to understand why it is so necessary to exercise "free speach" into politics, etc., in a private forum.

I won't belabor; thank you again. I do hope this is the end of it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:48 PM   #34
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Hats off to the mods and admins who keep this place safe for civilized discussion.

I have scars close personal experience with this subject. As a moderator on an early retirement forum, a subject with strong linkage to politics, we attempted to create a separate section specifically for discussion of political topics. The results were ugly, and that is an understatement.

Problem is there is no way to isolate those discussions into one area once they have begun. Hard feelings, grudges and downright nastiness bleeds over to the point the entire forum becomes infected.

You don't want to go there.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:16 PM   #35
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I learned long ago that a discussion of religon or politics was the quickest way to get into a fight. However, being a proud American, I support a person's first amendment rights, and will support them to the death.

I do not care to partake in any discussion of religion or politics in this forum, saving my comments for a person to person dialog, however, I feel it's the right of people here to express their views in a civil manner. I would support a political forum, even though it's been mentioned that it "ain't gonna happen here."

I think that the adults here could perhaps benefit from a discussion of political or religious topics without it degenerating into a schoolyard taunting session (which will eventually happen to some thread). If and when it does, then the moderator should step up and fix the problem. Warn the combatants first, remove them for a second offense. The same goes for any residual remarks that might wander unto other threads in this forum.

I know some of you will not agree with my thoughts, some will ignore them, some will laugh at them, howver, the real sin here is that people no different than me feel they have some right of censorship in a "public" forum.

Just my $.02 worth.

Steve
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:26 PM   #36
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HERE is one civil rights attorney's take on this issue. This individual's curriculum vitae may be found in the left margin next to his answer.

Rusty
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:40 PM   #37
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I agree with the decision of the owners and moderators of the forum. I am guilty of partaking in one of these heated debates, for which I was given a warning.

I won't let it happen again. But you can bet your sweet bippy that I will report a post if it has any mention of what our elected officials in the House, Senate or our President are doing to this economy, healthcare or our lives.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:50 AM   #38
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So.....post #12 above (in this thread) should be deleted??? I agree. AGAIN....I AGREE!!! If we are visiting in someone elses home, then everyone needs to follow the home owner's rules and be polite. Yet,.... post #12 above wasn't deleted. Was the iRV2 member of post #12 cautioned??? I'd like to know. If not, why not?? Did the moderators just miss this glaring "political" comment or do they let some such comments "slide?"

HERE (once again) is my real point:

Ya see, moderators are folks just like everyone else and they've got a tough job. I still think it would make our moderator's lives much simpler if they had a separate section like "The Corral" I suggested above to simply move such posts as #12 into. Steve
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:17 AM   #39
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Everyone in a community such as iRV2 should be aware of what "trolling" is . . . see here:

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Best thing to do when someone is trolling - DON'T give them the satisfaction of a response.

JMHO
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:20 AM   #40
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The site staff does not rule with an iron fist, nor do we want to, deleting or editing every post that may be questionable. Many posts are judgment calls.

From our rules;

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Someone has to interpret the above guidelines and how they apply to this forum. Ultimately it's up to our site moderators and administrators to make this decision. If you have any questions about these guidelines, please feel free to contact a moderator or administrator. Thanks to everyone for keeping the tone appropriate for a group of friends.
It is our policy not to discuss any action we may or may not have taken regarding a member with anyone else.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:26 AM   #41
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As moderators we don't (would be impossible) read every post so we miss a lot.

If a member sees something considered objectionable we rely on them clicking the 'Report Post' icon located below the campfires under the username and communicating their concern.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:55 AM   #42
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I still think it would make our moderator's lives much simpler if they had a separate section like "The Corral" I suggested above to simply move such posts as #12 into. Steve
I once thought the same way but found out the hard that simply doesn't work. See post #34 above.

The mods here have it right.
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