POLL - PASSPORTS at the USA-Canadian Border

[Steve Val]

Given the fact that I never commented previously on the subject of easy access of our borders, I would like to see how it was addressed earlier today on another forum -

"I traveled to Alaska last summer through Canada-- as a retired law enforcement -- I was really shocked at how slack the border check was.
The border guards did not come in the motorhome -- they just asked questions. Checked our personal ids.-- did not even check the dogs health certificates. "

That would indicate that kayo might be correct in his opinion. Not having crossed the northern border in several years, I can't really comment on that issue. The origional post stated "MayI also remind you that Mexico and Canada are more lax than the U.S. (if that is possible) on who they admit into their countries?"
I can comment on the southern border. We crossed into Mexico several times last summer, and we were never stopped going in. Not once. Never even saw anything resembling any type of patrol or checkpoint. Very disturbing. Coming back was a different story, however. U.S. Customs were a little more thorough.
So, perhaps we can draw a conclusion from what others have stated, and what I personally have experianced that there might be some validity to that statement.

Some of you folks don't have a clue as to why any form of ID is important and what the Border Personal are looking for. Have you ever heard the saying,"if it looks like, smells like, tast like, feels like; this must be it". Some of you don't like the context of the subject, but it is how we determine things to be in our life, its called PROFILING(substance analyst). And for those who think this is a bad word, you know where that will take you. 911 did happen because we were lax, some of the blame can be put on those so righteous, that the tools of identification were not allowed. The very idea that we couldn't connect looks, color and race to identify possible trouble is crazy; look what it cost us!

My government can have all the IDs they want, I have nothing to hide or hide from. If their requirement for what ever form of ID is asked for or made law, so let it be. If it saves this country from possible terrorist acts, we're stronger for it.

Tomcat F15

[TXiceman]

I think if more Americans had a chance to live out of the USA for a bit, they would have a different view on the border issue. Our borders have been way too open for too long.

We lived in Canada for about 2 years as American citizens. My wife and I carried a passport anytime we crossed the border and we never had a problem one crossing either direction.

If maintaing a passport is going to help me with my freedom at home, so be it. I have nothing to hide and no problem getting a passport.

Everyone is intitled to their opinion and they are not obligated to justify it to anyone other than themselves. So lets be tolerant and patient with others opinions and not force your own opinions on everyone else. The form is an open exchange of ideas.

Ken

[PhilnJune]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I traveled to Alaska last summer through Canada-- as a retired law enforcement -- I was really shocked at how slack the border check was.
The border guards did not come in the motorhome -- they just asked questions. Checked our personal ids.-- did not even check the dogs health certificates. " </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve thats common practice into the US as well I went 3 times last year and it was the same , just a few questions and waived on through into the US. They didnt check my dogs either other then to comment on how cute they were.
If a terrorist wants to come into a country there is no stopping them unless they are very stupid , they have access to counterfit passports of excellent quality that will never be dectected, they have friends or realitves in every country that will help them fit in with the community. Passports will do nothing except keep the honest man honest.
Phil

[FatDog]

These are different times admittedly. But I would like to see some sort of circle of trust sort of relationship for our continent develop.
Where there is some sort of reciprocal agreement, with verifiable results between us countries, the borders can keep somewhat of a relaxed atmosphere. Sure we maybe have to have passports. Sure we have a guard at the border check some RV's and do their 'sniff test' on the incoming people. But where the stringent checking would occur would be international airports and the harbors. The harbors here in the U.S. is where the checking is lax. We don't have to ask Canadians to 'justify' their checking, we ourselves check just a mere fraction of what comes into the LosAngeles/Long Beach harbors. That is a huge gap in security.
If our neighboring countries adopted a unified approach to incoming goods and people, sharing ideas and technology, the border from U.S. into Canada could remain checked but unruffled.
Mike

[PhilnJune]

Now that makes more sense Mike, you are right on the money.

[Two Bit]

I like Steve's statement
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
... comment on the southern border. We crossed into Mexico several times last summer, and we were never stopped going in. Not once. Never even saw anything resembling any type of patrol or checkpoint. Very disturbing. Coming back was a different story, however. U.S. Customs were a little more thorough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mexico doesn't bother checking persons entering from the US very much mainly because they dont have thousands of aliens entering their country each month from the US/ Mexico border with the intent of staying. Our local Border Patrol Sector (SW Texas) catches well over a thousand illegals per month(they have guessed that only 1 in 10 persons entering this country illegally are caught).A rapidly growing problem, (that reflects directly with Steve's observation)and a huge security issue, is an increase in what they call OTM's (other than Mexicans) crossing our southern border. These are persons (not Mexican citizens)that are from countries other than Mexico. They are using Mexico as a conduit to enter the USA. Similar problems are occuring at the US/Canada border. The (other than Canadians) is the worry at the northern border.

This OTM (and other than Canadian) issue is a big part in the passport rule. Will it fix everything, no. But it goes in the right direction. We as a nation prefer not to be, but this country is at war, and has been since 9-11-01.

[Rich & Zara]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TXiceman:


Everyone is intitled to their opinion and they are not obligated to justify it to anyone other than themselves.
Ken </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree but there is nothing wrong in asking, not demanding, a person to explain their reasons. If they do not want to explain, then that is their prerogative that should be respected. Explaining something in question can help make an interesting conversation, right?

Rich

[PhilnJune]

Very true Rich, but there is a big difference between asking for facts on which an arguement or statement is based and demanding an answer from a reluctant participant in a conversation. By the way Rich I just happened to see the Vietnam Memorial in Windsor Ontario dedicated to Canadian Vietnam Vets Thank your VVA for that. I am assuming it was your organization that did that its been there a while.
Phil

[Novi]

Hi Bushman, I am in the process of renewing my passport. It is a "stickier" process now than it used to be. First you must have a clearly readable birth certificate to get a passport. It cost $35 to get a new one now and takes about 1 month, if not in a hurry, but can be obtained in 10 days with proof of urgency if your going on a trip for example but the cost is higher. You can get the form at the provincal MP's office for your area. If yours is okay, then you can start the passport process. Go to a federal or provincial MP's office they have the forms and will tell you what you need to do. We have had one for years so it is no big deal to have one to go to the US, inconvienient yes, but really no big deal to us.

[Lynnvt]

Well, it sounds like the US renewal is easier but more expensive. No birth certificate needed, just your old pastport and 2 new pictures with $55. It's interesting, there was similar opposition here in Vermont when you were required to have a picture on your driver's license. Some people just didn't want their picture on their driver's license. In my opinion, whatever makes the process of moving around the most efficient. We most often take our passports as id's when going to Canada anyway.

[jana623]

Regarding being at war: We've actually been at war much longer that 9-11-01, at least since the Beirut Marine Barracks bombing (circa 1984??), if not the Iran Hostage time--1979.

We just didn't recognize it until 9-11-2001.

[Novi]

Actually Lynnvt after the birth certificate, if a new one is needed then the process for a new or renewed passport starts and it is the sticky part. A current, digital photo done by a professional is required and can be rejected if they don't like something about the photo. All the info you give them, the forms and photos have to be signed by a guarantor ( lawyer, priest, Dr. ect.) who has known you personally for at least 2 years, fortunately these signatures are free they cannot charge by law. Then a back ground check is done. The total cost is around $100. I forgot to mention that the guarantor signatures are also required if you need a new/replacement birth certificate. The whole thing is time consumeing, a lot of running around to various places, and can be frustrating if anything is not quite "right" even if it's only minor. All since 9/11 and because Canada has been critised as too lax, and indeed we were, in the past. Of course if you want an illegal passport it is probably easier/faster to get but costs a bit more.

[Borderbuster]

IMHO, I voted against the new law. Passports are not much better than any other form of ID. Believe me, in my prior occupation(borderguard) I saw many fraudulent forms of official identification that will fool most if not all law inforcement officers.

However I am in favor of an universal Identity card with embedded transponder that would trip database sensors containing biographical information needed by border authorities as well as any others with a need to know. The catch is to figure out who should issue it.

If you don't already know it, most of you are carrying similar cards already although the need to know people are probably your employer or a financial institution.

Those of us that are frequent border crossers at certain ports of entry can suscribe to the NEXUS program which entitles us to use a dedicated commuter lane. The users of this lane are issued an identity card such as I have described. While other ID is presently required, as long as the sensors are working, officers at the border should know as much about you as they need to know from the card readers.

As for the perceived laxity of US border officials, don't count on it. We got pretty good at sorting the chaff from the wheat although some will always escape

Randy