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Old 01-29-2016, 12:25 PM   #15
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X2 totally agree! RV's would not be selling the way they are if they were all crap. There is some total crap out there. But I won't lump all new RV's in that bucket
X3, we love ours, it has all the newer amenities, everything works as it should and we have not had any issues regarding quality either in the craftsmanship or the components used that you see people complaining about. I think you do get what you pay for, at least we did. We did look at some other brands that didn't have the same quality and were less money, but I wouldn't lump them all in the same category, unless you have actually experienced the issues rather than just reading about them.
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:48 PM   #16
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There is very little real leather in motor homes.
Most of it is Ultra Leather or a cheap knockoff of Ultra Leather. In my experience true Ultra Leather is very durable. A few years ago some manufacturers specified a Ultra Leather knockoff on Flexsteel seats and there were tons of complaints about how poorly it held up.
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Old 01-29-2016, 01:16 PM   #17
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Whenever I read a thread like this it always seems to come down to kind of an old rig snobishness. It's similar to the Tiffin guy saying that Newmars are junk or Entegras are bad or whatever will justify their own purchases. I've had older rigs and I've had newer rigs and I've looked at brand new rigs and the improvements over the years are huge. The safety, handling, comfort, and just enjoyment factors are so much better in the newer rigs.

I'm glad you enjoy your rigs but we who have newer rigs enjoy ours too. If you would like to think we bought junk, well, that's your prerogative. I've had old and I've had new and I'll take new anytime and every time.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:04 PM   #18
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I wished they had done our (used) '02 Flexsteel seats with cloth instead of that awful imitation leather but that was a minor irritant compared to the ergonomics.

The seat cushions were much too long fore/aft even for me (5' 10") impossible for DW (<5'). There was no vertical adjustment so DW needed a foot stool in the front passenger seat. There was no sideways curvature in the seat cushions, so you were always sliding about. I wouldn't touch Flexsteel with a barge-pole!
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:42 PM   #19
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Hi all, We purchased a 38ft. 2002 Monaco Windsor in October of 2015. Have not used it much but we really love it so far. It will be replacing a 30ft 1998 Safari Sahara when we get done cleaning it up. We really like the quality of both coaches. To bad we can't keep them both. Everything we have read about both coaches is top notch rating. This is my opinion and I am sticking to it!!!!! Thanks for hearing my opinion. Irtys Miller
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:07 AM   #20
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The biggest change through the years I've seen is the use of veneers & plastics. Our trusty old 2000 Dutch Star has solid wood, beautiful oak, and no veneers throughout. The one thing I would do if I was keeping her is up grade the countertops with either granite or quartz. I'm not sure how the veneers & plastics are going to hold up through the years, only time will tell. All I can say is that there's been no deterioration of the solid wood in our 16yr. old coach.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:40 AM   #21
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The so called manufacturing standards (RVIA) are a laugh in regards to how an RV is built. Most seem to be pretty much 'pirated' from from general home building standards with no real definition of how the 'boxes', trailer, MH or whatever, are put together. Yes, there are some federal vehicle codes that must be met, but in the case of a MH, that's covered by the chassis manufacturer. In the total number of defects or shortcomings, how many are with that part of the product? Very low in comparison to the 'box' adder is my guess When we were looking in 2014 for a good used or new 5er, could not believe how much 'bling' many of the new units had added since our 2006 was built. Bling costs money but really doesn't bring a thing to the product's manufacturing process and finally the sale except appeal to many and a way for the buyer to overlook defects. That added bling is usually not very well made - Dometic, Atwood. NorCold, BAL, Lippert to name a few (yeah, I know, some are divisions of others) as evidenced by the problems seen. I had occasion to make some mods to the bed platform of our 2014 5er. If it wasn't for several hundred if not thousands staples in different lengths and wire gauge, it would be falling apart. No glue, no screws - just staples. I replaced the stairs carpeting as Keystone neglected putting padding under it - again, hundreds of staples plus the entire assembly needed to be disassembled to pull the carpet from sides of the steps - and all this held in place by about 6 hidden screws - and more staples. Ah yes, quality.

But with this all said, if you want to have a home that is a rolling home away from home, this is what you get unless you can pay for a custom built unit. As far as age, the older ones are probably a bit more strongly built but at the price of less 'bling'. Pick out what you want, used or new, negotiate your price then go enjoy. If it breaks, repair or get it fixed and continue on your way. Just remember that your S&B can have as many or more problems too
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:10 AM   #22
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The so called manufacturing standards (RVIA) are a laugh in regards to how an RV is built. Most seem to be pretty much 'pirated' from from general home building standards with no real definition of how the 'boxes', trailer, MH or whatever, are put together. Yes, there are some federal vehicle codes that must be met, but in the case of a MH, that's covered by the chassis manufacturer. In the total number of defects or shortcomings, how many are with that part of the product? Very low in comparison to the 'box' adder is my guess When we were looking in 2014 for a good used or new 5er, could not believe how much 'bling' many of the new units had added since our 2006 was built. Bling costs money but really doesn't bring a thing to the product's manufacturing process and finally the sale except appeal to many and a way for the buyer to overlook defects. That added bling is usually not very well made - Dometic, Atwood. NorCold, BAL, Lippert to name a few (yeah, I know, some are divisions of others) as evidenced by the problems seen. I had occasion to make some mods to the bed platform of our 2014 5er. If it wasn't for several hundred if not thousands staples in different lengths and wire gauge, it would be falling apart. No glue, no screws - just staples. I replaced the stairs carpeting as Keystone neglected putting padding under it - again, hundreds of staples plus the entire assembly needed to be disassembled to pull the carpet from sides of the steps - and all this held in place by about 6 hidden screws - and more staples. Ah yes, quality.

But with this all said, if you want to have a home that is a rolling home away from home, this is what you get unless you can pay for a custom built unit. As far as age, the older ones are probably a bit more strongly built but at the price of less 'bling'. Pick out what you want, used or new, negotiate your price then go enjoy. If it breaks, repair or get it fixed and continue on your way. Just remember that your S&B can have as many or more problems too
IC2

Most of the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) "standards" appear to benefit RV manufactures far more than RV buyers/owners.
Mel
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:32 AM   #23
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"Anybody have any ideas what has changed in the leather industry?"

I believe it is due to the use of Chinese cattle leather....
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:08 AM   #24
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IC2

Most of the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) "standards" appear to benefit RV manufactures far more than RV buyers/owners.
Mel
'96 Safari
For sure. I was going to comment on that as well as post a link but got called for breakfast and CRS had happened by the time I got back to the 'puter
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:40 AM   #25
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You would expect that manufacturers would put their best foot forward at RV shows. Yet here's two photos from this year's Tampa RV Super Show. When my untrained eye sees things like this, one wonders what hides underneath.
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:54 PM   #26
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Shows are great for sales but horrible for the unit. We put signs on our toilets, but people don't care and take the signs off so they can use the bathroom. Of course since there is no water in the tanks "it" just sits there until we catch the problem.

When our units are made ready for a show everything is as it should be. By the end of each day, the same can't be said. People like to pull on things, let their kids climb on things, etc.

This is the reason we have technicians available at all times and a person who checks the units for problems.

Not all the problems you see at a show or dealership is caused by poor quality control. Some of it is caused by people who either don't know what they are doing and try to figure it out on their own, or people who just don't care.

As far as quality control from the manufacturers, some are definitely better than others.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:25 AM   #27
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RV shows are probably not the best place to get a good sampling of quality, simply because of the careless traffic they get.

But, in a general sense, quality control is lacking in the rv industry. And, according to the customer, that's acceptable. So don't expect it to change anytime soon. Just read some of the comments prevalent on these boards, "All new RV's have bugs." "Expect to return your RV to the dealer for minor fixes." "Buy used, that way the bugs are worked out." "It takes a good year to work out on the issues." Etc. etc.

The customer has been programmed to believe the falseness that there are simply too many things to inspect on the finished product.

A couple of choices (though there are many more i am sure):
1. Buy used and hope you are one of those lucky ones that gets the immaculate bug free and well-cared for rv.
2. Locate a reputable dealer and buy new. Go over the thing with a keen eye and refuse delivery until all you have found is fixed, and expect to miss a few things.
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:05 AM   #28
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Shows are great for sales but horrible for the unit.
When our units are made ready for a show everything is as it should be. By the end of each day, the same can't be said. People like to pull on things, let their kids climb on things, etc.
Brian W
If an RV is not built well enough to hold up for 2-3 days while on display it certainly will not hold up for years and miles of use.
Me thinks if RVs where built with quality in the first place fewer things would break if/when potential customers pull on, or let their kids climb on, (aka: USE), things in/on RVs displayed at RV shows.
Mel
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