Sad view of new units

[MRUSA14]

Yup. It amazes me that the biggest complainers about new coach quality are those that have 20 year old coaches. Bias maybe? Jealousy? Reverse snobbery? I can't believe that twenty year old coaches have fewer problems than top brand new ones. I for one would sure rather have a new $583,000 coach than that old Vogue. The difference in design and features is night and day, and the quality is there if you choose carefully.

Many of these complaints are either aimed at lower end products, in which case I say you can't have quality without paying for it. Or else they say that higher price products should have zero defects. Which will never happen. I don't care if you paid 10 million dollars for a coach, there would still be defects. Ask anybody who has a multi-million dollar home if it is defect-free and the answer will be NO.

[Danielsand]

Originally Posted by mel s

Danielsand
It is sad indeed when over "half a mil" can't buy a quality coach.
What's even more sad is the fact that people buy them.
Mel
'96 Safari

That's a fact.

However,......it seems there are two "camps" over here, people that love the "newest and the greatest", and people that prefer vintage. Neither is wrong, and I totally disagree about "reverse snobbery", "jealousy", or "envy". Most people in my age group (among RV drivers) can walk into any dealership, and "buy" (read finance), anything. And if one wants to make payments for the rest of his/her life, that's OK too. I am convinced that I don't have 20 years left to live, and financing ANYTHING for 20 years (or more) is not feasible for ME (your situation might be different).

I could even liquidate some assets, and go buy 2016 Prevost with cash. The catch is,......I don't like them! I dislike slides (seems all the coaches now have them), I don't like paint "designs", and I definitely don't like interiors. Do I look down on people that like them? Certainly not (it would be like looking down on people that prefer brunettes over blonds!). We all have our likes and dislikes (I like single malt Scotch, and "you" might like beer). Who cares?

All I was trying to say, is that quality can still be had, and the price might reflect it (but not always).

Some very wealthy (and able) people enjoy restoring classic cars (ever been to Barrett-Jackson?),....I happen to enjoy classic,......EVERYTHING.

Certainly not out of snobbery. It might be longing for the times gone by, it might be trying to "slow down" time....I don't know. But even as a young man, I preferred (example) Lugers to Glocks, and vintage Rolex to a new one.
Another thing (in my case),.......I was always a history buff, and old (and quality) objects always had a great appeal to ME because I felt like I have a "piece of history" with me.

Just because "historia est magistra vitae".

Over and out.

[wnytaxman]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

Yup. It amazes me that the biggest complainers about new coach quality are those that have 20 year old coaches. Bias maybe? Jealousy? Reverse snobbery? I can't believe that twenty year old coaches have fewer problems than top brand new ones. I for one would sure rather have a new $583,000 coach than that old Vogue. The difference in design and features is night and day, and the quality is there if you choose carefully.

Many of these complaints are either aimed at lower end products, in which case I say you can't have quality without paying for it. Or else they say that higher price products should have zero defects. Which will never happen. I don't care if you paid 10 million dollars for a coach, there would still be defects. Ask anybody who has a multi-million dollar home if it is defect-free and the answer will be NO.

Marc, I couldn't agree more. So much of this thread almost sounds like the playground of my dad can beat up your dad, but in this case is my old coach is better than your new coach.

Those of us with newer coaches or looking at buying (gasp!) a brand new coach are really happy that there are those that enjoy older coaches. The other side of that coin is that a lot of us really enjoy our new(er) coaches. I don't think that if I go out and buy a new Entegra or Newmar or Foretravel that I am getting junk. If that is the opinion some have, well that's fine, but I don't think going on and on about how terrible anything not manufactured prior to the last two presidents is productive.

By the way, many, if not most of those who shop at classic car auctions are doing so as an investment. I've watched my '75 Caddy double in value over the last two years but it sure as heck isn't a better car than my 2015 Lincoln.

[SeeTheUSA]

I like the coach I have. That has been a constant through the three that I've owned.

I've never spent any time wondering if others like theirs .... just kinda assumed they probably do since they own it.

Even tenters are visiting most of the same places I visit.

[Gordon Dewald]

This brings memories back about my dad from years ago. The same debate occurred in the 60/70 when cars went to electronic ignition. There was a great lament about the quality of the new vehicles and how the old ones were built so much better.

Dad used to laugh because he said he was glad he did not have to deal with points and condensers any more. Cars traveled further and faster with less maintenance than anything previous.

There was a time when the manufacturers got complacent and the quality did go into the toilet. Fortunately that turned around when the Japanese entered the automotive market.

Perhaps that is what we need nowadays. The Japanese or Koreans could shake things up if they entered the RV market.

[jwmaustin]

One point that looks like it's missed is that when old coaches were new they might have had the same defects coming off the lot as today....but owners of older coaches today aren't typically the ones who bought it new.

I've had 20 year old and new so I don't really see the value in arguing it. As some have said....just enjoy what you have!

[Fred1609]

I agree...If the Japanese built RVs we would have far better quality and customer service.......Until then, many manufactures will continue their current build standards.

[wnytaxman]

Originally Posted by Fred1609

I agree...If the Japanese built RVs we would have far better quality and customer service.......Until then, many manufactures will continue their current build standards.

And we would have less American jobs!

[raineman]

Originally Posted by wnytaxman

And we would have less American jobs!

........and better coaches. Maybe one day the 2 will meet in the middle

[nothermark]

FWIW as somebody who has been a casual woodworker for ~50 years and a consumer of a lot of good "how to" or better yet "how not to" use solid wood I really get a kick out of the "solid wood" whine. Motor homes are one of the worst places to use up our small supply of good solid wood. It is an environment guaranteed to have problems with unequal shrinkage so warping and joint failure are guaranteed. Decent laminate and good veneer are much better choices given the temperature and humidity ranges most RV's are subject to. Then add the vibration from traveling! I'd much rather have good plywood with solid trim and easily adjustable euro style hinges.

FWIW stones are in my yard. That is where they belong. Poor flooring or counter tops! Too hard and too cold.

My $0.02 and worth what you paid for it. ;-)

[Superslif]

Better materials, more labor, .........so if one is looking for quality, one has to pony up some serious bucks, and shop top of the RV lineup. Coaches like that are out there. Cheap stuff is just that,....cheap. Cheaply made, from inferior materials, rushed through to save man hours.......

They build them to a certain Price / Payment Point.

If the Japanese built RVs we would have far better quality and customer service.......Until then, many manufactures will continue their current build standards.

That is why I own two Toyota's...

Ourselves we have a 26' hybrid (3-season RV) What were looking for is a quality built 26' to 30' (4-season) RV trailer. At last months RV show (Cleveland OH.) with 600 RV's, most in the length we are looking for were built for the family needing to keep the payments within budget. Meaning "cheap". The Winnebago's were about the best quality I saw in the 30' or under units. There were some higher quality units, but they were 32' or longer. I have yet to look at Arctic Fox or Bigfoot. They don't really sell them East of the Mississippi.

At the show there was a Winnebago we liked but it was listed at 34'. The rep kept saying it was a "miss-print" in the brochure and was much shorter like the 30' we were looking for. Trust me it was every bit of 33' 10" the brochure said.

[TexasTom]

I think the quality issue has always been there.

My first trip in 1975.... a new Winnebago Chieftain brought the experience of the muffler blowing off the engine (LOUD), doors falling off cabinets, generator falling off it's mounts, and sink coming lose from the counter..........all on the first trip.

And it was great to laugh at the new Berkshire that was being shown on that TV show at Lazy Days....I seem to remember a cabinet falling apart and they actually put that on the air.

[Ted Lambert]

Originally Posted by wnytaxman

Whenever I read a thread like this it always seems to come down to kind of an old rig snobishness. It's similar to the Tiffin guy saying that Newmars are junk or Entegras are bad or whatever will justify their own purchases. I've had older rigs and I've had newer rigs and I've looked at brand new rigs and the improvements over the years are huge. The safety, handling, comfort, and just enjoyment factors are so much better in the newer rigs.

I'm glad you enjoy your rigs but we who have newer rigs enjoy ours too. If you would like to think we bought junk, well, that's your prerogative. I've had old and I've had new and I'll take new anytime and every time.

Sorry you took it personal. I honestly don't believe there is any intent to put you down. Quality has changed and I believe manufactures deserve feedback and a Forum like this achieves that.

[Davdeb1]

This is all about justifying your purchase. I would say if someone could truly afford a new $700k Foretravel, its most likely they would buy it. When I say afford I don't mean afford the payments, or cash in a good deal of your net worth. I mean really afford it. My income is derived from ss. I have an IRA to supplement my ss so I can buy food, pay for fuel, healthcare, RV park fees, insurance etc.
If I had a large net worth, (over 3 million) I might feel I can afford that Foretravel. In fact I would trade my 2000 DP and buy it. The capabilities, conveniences, and comfort far out shadow the "quality" of any vintage unit. Over the years I've had friends and acquaintances justify keeping or buying modestly priced products saying they could afford better but why spend the money. Now I'm sure a small percentage of people actually mean it, and comments following my post will indicate that.
I love my 2000 DP, I like the quality, but if I could "afford" it I'd be out buying the Foretravel/Newell/Prevost units along with 4 homes that have RV parking on each coast and on in Canada! But that's just me?