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Old 04-15-2016, 11:53 PM   #15
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While it would be a shame for schools to drop music from their curriculum, I think anyone who missed it in school can learn it any time in life if they would like to. This is especially true after retirement when there is more time available for practice/study.

Steve
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Old 04-16-2016, 12:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by dix39 View Post
While it would be a shame for schools to drop music from their curriculum, I think anyone who missed it in school can learn it any time in life if they would like to. This is especially true after retirement when there is more time available for practice/study.

Steve
True that! And it seems that people think if it is not taught in school, it is not available anywhere else in the world.

I was "taught" music in school, but really learned nothing. As an adult, I am taking voice lessons, studying songwriting and music theory, and actually working on the craft of music. Finished a CD today, written, played, recorded, mixed, mastered by me!

It is like the world would end if a parent actually took the initiative to arrange instruction outside of school.

Matt B
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Old 04-16-2016, 03:23 AM   #17
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When I was in school I was really good at math, but I hated it. All around me were other students that either hated it or thought it was too hard. That is because we were just taught algorithms and not given the opportunity to see how numbers worked in relation to other numbers, opting for unexplained concepts like "borrowing" when doing subtraction problems.

Cashiers counting change usually use a Common Core Math method. Say someone makes a purchase for $4.70 and gives you a $20 bill. How do you give them change? Do you get out a piece of paper and write it out?



No. You start with 4.70, add 30 cents and say "five" .... Then add a five dollar bill to get "ten" and a ten dollar bill to get to "twenty."

And $.30 + $5 + $10 = $15.30, the correct amount of change, just done the way they teach math under "Common Core."

It's not subversive. It's not overly complicated. It's just different than the way they used to teach it. The algorithm way of solving math problems is still taught as part of the curriculum, but more time is spent in helping the kids that don't have a knack for algorithms in viewing and understanding numbers in a way that is accessible and makes sense.

Of course us older folks who had to learn the algorithms look at diagrammed math problems and don't understand them. Not because we're stupid or that way of teaching is bad, but simply because we weren't taught how it works. Think for a moment, if you were never taught algorithms, would this really make sense to you?:

The problem with common core isn't about "breaking problems down" vs. writing them out the "old fashioned way". First, while breaking a problem down into smaller components is a simple way to solve it in your head, it can get pretty complicated when dealing with very large numbers, or a long series of equations. At which point you end up needing to write it down anyway and then the "old way" is much faster. There was a video making the rounds not too long ago of a girl showing her mother how to solve a math problem involving two three digit numbers. She did it using a whole lot of circles that represented different denominations. It took several minutes. If you simply learn your basic addition, subtraction, and multiplication tables you should be able to handle most day to day math in your head. No need for circles, lines, dots, and tables.
Meanwhile it's not uncommon to see students get the correct answer and still get the problem marked wrong, because they didn't reach the answer the "correct" way.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:15 AM   #18
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Voluntary adoption of Common Core Language and Math Standards started in 2010. You were probably being taught "New Math" which emphasised understanding what you were doing over merely having the right answer.
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Old 04-16-2016, 12:52 PM   #19
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In response to the above linked video:

"That's what makes sense, right. That's the way we were taught to do it."

She completely overlooks the fact that if someone is taught a different way to do something, it would make sense to them. Teaching math as concepts regarding numbers rather than pure algorithms works for more students.
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:06 PM   #20
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They say (government) want the kids to use and learn computers in class sooo they (school) laid off the computer teacher because they can not afford one in the budget.
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Old 04-17-2016, 05:26 PM   #21
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I'm a retired Biology teacher. If all the problems in our educational system could be easily solved, they would have been. The elimination of programs like Home Ec, Drivers' Ed, shop classes, & music are simply budgetary. Things are constantly being mandated without the funds provided to pay for them. As for me, I thought I was the next great rock star in high school. Played in a phenomenally great group modeled after Cream & Grand Funk put together by our high school band director. I was the bass player in his Jazz band. It is the only thing that kept me in high school. Following his encouragement, I started college as a music composition major, playing guitar in their Jazz band. I was only there treading water waiting for our great little band to be discovered. By 19, I was fed up with the lifestyle . . . playing night clubs, trying to completely stay out of the drug culture when most around me, including the truly gifted drummer I worked with, were slowly wasting away because of it. The music kept me in college long enough for me to be exposed to what would lead to a much more sane & worthwhile way for me to perform - teaching. Over the years everything became about teaching to standardized tests. I was truly good at getting those kids high scores, but their education was lost along the way. I was no longer being paid to teach Biology. I was charged with teaching to a test that made it look like our district did better than neighboring districts when those scores were published. Common Core math is just part of the next round of the shell game that will continue, until a huge, terribly expensive revolution in education occurs. Not a single competent, experienced math teacher I know expects it to be successful.
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:39 PM   #22
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I was no longer being paid to teach Biology. I was charged with teaching to a test that made it look like our district did better than neighboring districts when those scores were published. Common Core math is just part of the next round of the shell game that will continue, until a huge, terribly expensive revolution in education occurs. Not a single competent, experienced math teacher I know expects it to be successful.
That is exactly what my better half says. It was such a mess here in Oklahoma that they dropped common core and all the testing that went with it. I have noticed a change in her stress level.
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:49 PM   #23
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My son started music in a public school diring the second grade in upstate NY.....

He had a blast with his music in middle and high school.

Stayed with it all the way through college.....got to travel around the world.

He is now the tubist for the Detroit Symphony.

Whodathunk back in the day?!?????

I am happy to say that our school system here in Brownsburg has a solid music program and the school I volunteered at has one of the best music teachers I have known - her classes are a lot more than the "recorder" or the "triangle". Hahaha She includes dance, singing, and all sorts of instruments the students can play....it is amazing what a good teacher can do with the little ones.

Just my thoughts...

g

Oh - on a side note - I can't whistle a tune...........LOL
Wow! As a fellow tubist and retired band director (34 years working with THE best kids and the most caring in school) congrats to your son! I know the rarified air he is breathing. Must have had some amazing parents to encourage that level of commitment to hard work too!
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:10 PM   #24
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Bravo Indy Glenn. Detroit Symphony. Wow!!! Great parents.
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:30 PM   #25
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Such fine posts!
No matter what may happen to the education system, I think a lot of credit for successful kids is good parenting. You?


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Old 04-18-2016, 09:42 PM   #26
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biosensai: I heard the same discussion from a number of teachers over the past 20 years. The education system continually reinvents itself and the end result is not improving. Teaching to a test instead of knowledge.

I graduated high school in 1958 and had a very good education. We had math, science, wood and metal shop, foundry, drafting, music, surveying (mapping), gym class, art, music and of course English, writing (composition and penmanship), American and world history, civics and government and in Jr. high I remember even Home economics classes. You were expected to do 2 hours of homework to keep up. The point is, they made time for all of it...

Of course this didn't allow a lot of time for finding our inner feelings or exploring any deep seated anxieties over political correctness.
We still have great, dedicated teachers, it is the system that is lacking in direction.
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:13 PM   #27
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The joke around the school was the football team was so bad because all the good players were in the band.
The joke at my son's high school was that there were more people in the grandstand for the half-time marching band performance than the game. 40 players on the football team; 110 in the marching band!

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Old 04-18-2016, 10:39 PM   #28
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Hey WannaBFLtimer, I too had the greatest job in the world for 38 years! I miss the kids, making music every day, etc. BUT- I do not miss all the stuff that has come down the pike from "education experts". We could argue the benefits of Music Ed forever. I'll just give you 1 example of refuting the "We can't afford it" argument - 1 band director teaching 75 students, get rid of him and hire 3 teachers to teach 25 students each, where is the cost savings? Band and choir teachers are the greatest bargain in Education. OK, getting off the soapbox now.
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