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Old 12-16-2012, 09:20 AM   #1
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Security: Say what?

All the security precautions that we see, all over the place, will prevent the "average" person from passing the security measures undetected. However, most of it is "just for show" with no more thought than the people who came up with a particular security idea.

Example: (This is a true scenario that happened) Place in the ground, around a building, 8" metal pipes filled with cement and buried in the ground 4 or more feet. These are spaced about 5 feet apart and will prevent vehicles from getting close to the building. This was the protection afforded to a building after 9/11.

Fact: This will not keep smaller (use your imagination) vehicles from driving through the barriers.

Example: Place spikes that can be raised with the push of a button at entrances an exits that will cause four flat tires.

Fact: Anyone seen those chases on TV where the person is riding on the rims? How far will a big moving van travel on rims. Enough to reach a building?

Example: No knives allowed!

Fact: Rolling Ball Pen as a weapon.

Example: Our airport security.

Fact: How many times have people gotten through with devices? To name one, Shoe Bomber.

All the security one can talk about, in my opinion, is only for show, and big, big bucks are spent on it every year.

There is no one way to protect "anything," only to minimize. If someone wants it to happen, I don't believe there is a way to stop it, only to minimize it - is that good enough?
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #2
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Or as my dad always said, "Locks keep honest people honest."
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:25 AM   #3
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I am terrified to say that it will never end.

List of School Shootings in the U.S.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:37 AM   #4
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Point taken still, is the answer to do nothing? Eventually a dedicated group or individual with enough knowledge, conviction and courage will breach security systems designed to accommodate public access points such as travel centers and public access venues. Proper security requires overlapping fields of detection and deterrence.

Even high security operations such as prisons can not escape security breaches. Still, for the most part these kind of lock down systems are more easily secured.

As long as we approach security from a profiling mentality (looks like a "bad guy") we open ourselves to breaches from other angles. The answer is a double edged sword that is probably unpalatable to American ideals of privacy.

As to the direct question about "is it good enough"? It really depends on so many factors of what Americans will accept. Will we accept even higher levels of police surveillance, move to a wild west (everyone packs heat) mentality, create a "papers please" approach or any conglomeration of these (and other) shifts?

I would say this in direct response. Absence of any outward signs of security measures would only encourage security challenges. Even an inept TSA program puts some challenges in front of would be criminals.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:43 AM   #5
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All the laws in the universe would not stop OJ's knife from going off.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:16 AM   #6
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How about we talk about mental health issues. Perhaps that is a system that is broken as well. Does not deal with terrorists, but might help a bit in some situations.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:24 AM   #7
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You cannot regulate lunacy, nor can you prevent a determined person from causing harm to complete strangers...
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:42 PM   #8
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There are many, many ways to sneak a weapon past security scanners.. I know of ways to smuggle in a very sharp knife for example. And before you ask, Sorry, no hints, This trick will go through metal detectors, XRay and more.. They simply do not show up, PERIOD.

I have often ask the questions: How many terrorists have gotten past the gate at airports (you cited one, I can think of a couple more) how many ahve been stopped at the gate (I think one, not sure of that), how many by ground pounders (Regular police acting on information and investigating) I long since have lost count on that, but it's more than one, more than 10, in fact I don't even think we are in the right number of digits yet (I think it's 3, might be 4 been out of the loop for a decade).
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
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........................There is no one way to protect "anything," only to minimize. If someone wants it to happen, I don't believe there is a way to stop it, only to minimize it - is that good enough?
Hey Wayne, it's not good enough, but it's better than nothing. Security is a double-edged sword. Everyone wants better security but no one wants to pay for it, nor do they want the inconvenience comes with really good security. As a Marine, I think you know what I'm writing about.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:48 PM   #10
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My daughter works in a very busy hospital emergency ward. She once worked in a federal max security prison and is fully trained. Quite often a psychotic person will walk through the door and the so called security people they have can't handle them. She has taken a couple down now. Please leave just does not cut it! The caliber of security guards needs to be looked at at many places, hospitals, airports and maybe schools. Should have military or police tactical training.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:53 PM   #11
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Once again, after the Newtown shootings ( about 35 miles from where I live), there is all this talk of finding out "WHY". All the answers to all the previous shootings have not added one iota of security. There have been crazy people as long as there have been people (Cain & Abel ring a bell?)
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:07 PM   #12
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Thank you all. I feel that you are reinforcing what I have stated. Yes, something is better than nothing, but why the something that is totally inadequate and is "just for show." It is one of the things that the people in charge think that by doing "something" it gives a sense of security, and it does, but in many cases it is a false sense of security.

All we can do is minimize the threat, we can't eliminate it. No type of "control" can eliminate the threat. May just as well remove all the sharp objects in the world, and don't forget to burn all the trees where a stick could be ground down with rocks and made into a sharp object. That is natures natural gift going back to ancient times, just imagine if you can all the manufactured "tools." How do you take them away, and would you want to? It's really to large a task.

Happy trails.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne M View Post
I am terrified to say that it will never end.

List of School Shootings in the U.S.
The worst one was in 1927, dynamite was used. It was before the prohibiton of automatic weapons was passed. Not sure why this is even listed in the "School Shootings" as none of the people were shot, just a shot to detonate the dynamite.
Quote:
May 18, 1927: Bath, Michigan School treasurer Andrew Kehoe, after killing his wife and destroying his house and farm, blew up the Bath Consolidated School by detonating dynamite in the basement of the school, killing 38 people, mostly children. He then pulled up to the school in his Ford car, then set off a truck bomb, killing himself and four others. Only one shot was fired in order to detonate dynamite in the car. This was deadliest act of mass murder at a school in the United States.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:45 PM   #14
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Interesting comments. I wonder why everything is blamed on the gun. Take a look at what happened in China where a nut case ripped up 20 people with a knife. It doesn't make any difference what weapon gets banned, someone will come up with another one such as the ball point pen, a baseball bat, knife, etc.

What I want to know is why these wild video games haven't been looked at as a cause of violence. They are pretty graphic with the killing, blood and guts stuff. Play the game and at the end, you walk away with everything else dead. These kids nowdays think killing someone is a game.
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