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Old 08-04-2009, 02:45 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by georgetown350 View Post
I agree...... That clip was annoying to watch as it was full of exaggeration and lies.
It's called reality.
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:26 PM   #100
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Cash for Clunkers has been so much more of a success than anticipated
I laughed out loud at that one...any economist will tell you that it was pent up demand, and consumers jumping at the cheese that was put in front of them. It also will hurt future sales as consumers become conditioned to wait for the next hand out before they buy again. But if wasting money that we don't have, at a record pace is how success is measured, then yes this program was that for sure.

But let's just say I am wrong, and this cash for clunkers is actually good for the country. Then why not replicate this success and lets have cash for clunker motor homes, cash for clunker houses, cash for clunker computers, cash for clunker toasters! Of course this is insanity, but just insanity on a larger scale.

As far as the standard scare tactic that the "current insurance system will bankrupt us", well, actually we are already bankrupt. But it is the insane out of control spending by our government that has bankrupted us. Add to that the fact that the current adminstration found the patient bleeding to death, is trying to fix it by gutting the same patient at record levels. It's like they think they can spend their way out of bankruptcy. Completely insane.

I also have to laugh when I hear liberals, who genuinly hate George Bush and constatnly criticize his every move, justify the bailout by saying "George Bush started it". This is the same George Bush who they say can't even tie his own shoes! But now that their guy is taking the insanity to unheard of levels, well this is just wonderful. At least I can say spending money you don't have was wrong when the Bush administration did it, and it is still wrong when the current administration is doing it at record levels.

We can debate back and forth in forums such as this, and that probably is a good thing. But I also actually know who my Senators and Congressmen are, and I communicate with them on a regular basis. What it boils down to for me is that when my 2 year old son graduates from college starts paying for all this madness, if I'm still around, I can look him in the eye and tell him I did everything I could to stop it, and I never sat around and waited for the government to do anything for me that I should be doing for myself.
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:40 PM   #101
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So, you want a source for a poll showing that Canadians prefer our system over the U.S.?

Well, here's just one of many you can look at which shows "the vast majority of Canadians, 91 per cent, felt that Canada's health care system was better than the United States." In polling terms, that's darn near unanimous!!

This poll was conducted by The Strategic Counsel surveyed 1,000 Canadians and 1,000 people in the United States.



Here's the source of the story:


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...9?hub=Politics

As a Canadian, I can vouch for the accuracy of this poll because in all my 65 years, I have never, ever run across another Canadian who prefers the U.S. health care system over ours. In fact, that is probably one of our biggest nightmares!!

If you would still like more polls showing the same thing, just ask, I'll be pleased to post them.
Check out the posting "Our Canadian Friends"
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:46 PM   #102
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Few Points:

Most Canadians are very happy that their health care is free.

If you are rich and live in Canada and/or England and do not want to wait the reasonable time required due to the availability of testing or treatment in their system, you come to the United States and pay not to wait.

If you are a "Top" Physician in your field in a country with Socialized or Single Source Payer, like many of your associates, but not all, you move to the United States where you can make more money.

Fifty years ago when Canada's health care system was developed, the world was an industrialized society. Today, we are a service and consumption based society in most industrialized countries. If more money is spent on health care, their are fewer dollars used for consumption. The reduction of consumption along with the increased cost of health care, the United States economy is not sustainable.

Even though Canada has a Socialized/Single payer Health Care System, their health care costs are also growing at a rate faster than inflation or the economy.

If you are the average hospital, you write off or provide "charitable care" for about 25% of all services you provide. This allows you to rape the rest of the people and claim non-profit status. That non-profit status also can and in many cases releases you from other obligations like property and sales tax. How many businesses can run break even and give away 25% or more of their services.

In 2004 there were 4.6 MRI Scanners per million population in Canada in the United States there were 19.5. In Canada the most urgent needs are taken care of first and the least urgent go to the back of the line and wait.

Most studies show that Canada spends less dollars per capita than the United States on Health Care. Most studies also show that the reason is demographics. The United States has a significantly higher level of drug abuse, crime and illegal aliens which contribute a significant portion to the overall pool of health care expenditures.

If we really expect this to work, let's try fixing the problems with the existing systems and prove that it can be done. If we just change the system and add more people before we know we can fix the problems and reduce costs. The economic damage is unrecoverable.

Now, no one on one side of the debate wants to wait, they know they will not be able to prove that they can fix the problems first.

Actually the debate is over, all but the tears, the current proposals have no chance of being implemented. What you will see is a very watered down legislation that says we plan to be serious about doing something someday.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:04 PM   #103
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Quote:
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Few Points:

Most Canadians are very happy that their health care is free.

If you are rich and live in Canada and/or England and do not want to wait the reasonable time required due to the availability of testing or treatment in their system, you come to the United States and pay not to wait.

.....
This is just another false statement re the Canadian Health Care System. There is no such thing as "wait the reasonable time required due to the availability of testing..." in our system. I have never, ever had to wait to be treated. In fact, I can walk down to a clinic at the bottom of our street right now and get treated immediately by a physician. If I would rather see my own physician, I can get in to see him the same day if it's urgent - other wise within a day or two. If tests are required, I've always had them done within a matter of days after seeing my doctor.

I don't know where these stories come from, but they are not from the 91% of Canadians who support our universal health care system. I suspect they are generated by those who have a financial interest in maintaining the 'care for profit' system in the U.S.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:12 PM   #104
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......

Actually the debate is over, all but the tears, the current proposals have no chance of being implemented. What you will see is a very watered down legislation that says we plan to be serious about doing something someday.
There are over 100 million Americans now covered by Government Health Insurance in the U.S.(Medicare, Medicaid, Govt. Workers, Congress, Children etc.) and the number is growing rapidly every year. Fifty years ago, most Americans would have said that actuality had "no chance of being implemented" - but they were wrong.

The U.S. will implement health care for all of its citizens, even though they will be the last economic power on earth to do so, in the same way they have always have. First, by rejecting it outright, and then, slowly, eventually adopting it because the voters insist on it. It happened with Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Welfare and it will happen with Universal Health Care.

The argument is over - it's just now a matter of when and in what form.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:27 PM   #105
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Have we reached a tipping point? With 47% of the citizens recieving some type of check from he government each month what will we do when its 60% SUPPORTED BY 40%. IT'S TIME FOR THE PEOPLE TO TAKE BACK THEIR GOVERNMENT, I RECOMEND THAT WE VOTE AGENST ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN IN OFFICE MORE THAN 12 YEARS. IN 3 OR 4 VOTING CYCLES WE CAN START OVER. NO ONE THINKS BEING AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SHOULD BE A LIFE TIME JOB. BESIDES THEY DON'T REPRESENT OUR WISHES ONLY THOSE OF NANCY POLOSI AND HARRY REED.
12 AND OUT, 12 AND OUT FOR ALL OF THEM
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:37 PM   #106
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Several posts are .


Lets get back on topic and off the political stuff, Cash for Clunkers, etc.

This is the second advisory.

Three strikes and..........................well, you know.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:42 PM   #107
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Several posts are .


Lets get back on topic and off the political stuff, Cash for Clunkers, etc.

This is the second advisory.

Three strikes and..........................well, you know.
I'm fairly new to the forum, but I've been told that posts like this would be removed as being against the rules:

NO ONE THINKS BEING AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SHOULD BE A LIFE TIME JOB. BESIDES THEY DON'T REPRESENT OUR WISHES ONLY THOSE OF NANCY POLOSI AND HARRY REED.

It's just 2 posts above - how come some of these get to stay, while others are deleted? Just curious.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:44 PM   #108
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I laughed out loud at that one...any economist will tell you that it was pent up demand, and consumers jumping at the cheese that was put in front of them. It also will hurt future sales as consumers become conditioned to wait for the next hand out before they buy again. But if wasting money that we don't have, at a record pace is how success is measured, then yes this program was that for sure.
Acording to reports, the most common trade-in for this program has been the Ford Explorer (I believe around 10-15 years old), and among the 47% that were American made, the cars purchased were led by the Ford Focus. I have not had an SUV to trade in, but in these times I would guess it would be hard to give away a 15 year old gas-guzzler SUV these days. So I doubt your premise - rather I suspect these owners were likely to keep driving these worthless things till they fell apart.

But clearly you do not agree with the majority of economists who felt a stimulus was needed (there was a lot of disagreement over how big and exactly what kind), so you'll never see any part of it as a success no matter how it performs, and that's OK.

But for those who agree that our economy needed a stimulus, this program:

1) succeeded in "getting out there" very quickly - much faster than anyone thought possible. Conservatives in particular have been claiming this is crucial (and wanted it all as fast-acting, though less "bang for the buck" tax cuts).

2) succeeded in getting gas guzzlers off the road, replaced by much better gas mileage new cars.

3) succeeded in getting less safe (roll-over hazard especially) older SUVs off the road. Should actually reduce injury medical costs.

4) succeeded in giving a boost to the hard-hit auto Dealerships and Manufactures at a time when they really need it.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:48 PM   #109
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Since two warnings about political and off topic posts have gone unheeded, it's time to close this thread and move on.

Thanks.
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