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Old 07-30-2009, 06:30 AM   #1
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So, "free universal" health care is good?

If you think that government takeover of our health care system is a good idea, you might want to do some more research.

http://www.dotmed.com/news/story/9781

This would be just the tip of the iceberg folks. Sure we have problems now, but if you have a fly in the house and you use a shotgun to kill it, you may or may not kill the fly, but you most assuridly will end up with bigger problems.
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:41 AM   #2
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Nothing will cost you more than something the gov hands out as "free"........Hello, I'm from the goverment and I'm here to help you..........
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:41 AM   #3
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One time an insurance salesman knocked on my door. When I opened it, he said: "I'm here to help you save money". I then asked him: " Since I'm now saving $50 a week, how much more will I be able to save when you get through with me?". The man stuttered " that's not what I meant", turned and left. I'm very skeptical when anyone wants to "help" me.
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:09 PM   #4
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Not much is left that is free these days. The real issue comes down to how to pay for all the medical care, and who will do the paying. So far it seems it comes down to more taxes on some, and more "entitlements" to those that cant or wont pay their own way. IMHO, the definition the government uses to determine who cant. is far too broad, and the penalty for those who wont, is far too small.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:23 PM   #5
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I think the system need some fixing. How can there be different rates for the same care. For example, why does someone with Medicare pay a whole lot less for a procedure than someone that has private insurance. That doesn't sound right to me, but it happens all the time.

I am for some kind of reform. My 80ish parents have a tough time making ends meet with all of the Dr.'s appointments and prescription meds. They both worked hard all of their lives. Unfortunately, they didn't put a lot of money away and neither of them received anything substantial in the way of a pension.

I think the government should take care of the elderly.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:22 PM   #6
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I have read the article and have a few comments. First let me say that I am in favor of everyone having access to needed health care. I also believe that it should be at a cost commensurate with their income.

I have a health care background and am fully aware of the costs and waste in health care. I am also aware that in the situation in the article, the survey was done by the people who want to keep the current reimbursement for services. Nothing like stacking the deck.

If as in the article, a rural setting can not cost effectively provide the medical service and hence has to close, the major centers will have greater volume and greater cost efficiency. Yes someone may have to drive further than they want and to suggest that they would give up their life decision based on a couple of hours drive time is to suggest lunacy and is an insult to all intelligent people. The medical financial juggernaut will always tell you of the downside to cutting anything for any reason and tear at your heartstrings.

The cuts have to start somewhere. We as a society have come to expect the best of everything and we want it now, no matter how much it costs my neighbor. Many people did not save for their retirement and are having hard times, should those that did save be responsible for those that did not? What happens when all incentive for success is lost?

So let's see, to listen to all the special interest groups, we can't cut any expenses for Police, Firefighters, Teachers, Education, Libraries, Parks, Medicare, Medicaid, Health Care, Child Care, Welfare, Food Stamps, Housing Subsidies and anything else a special interest or self serving group can conjure up.

There is no "government" to take care of anyone young or old. It's up to you and me, we pay the bill, we are the government "WE THE PEOPLE"!

Well, just send me the bill, I guess I can afford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:32 PM   #7
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Everyone in the US has "access" to needed medical care right now, the problem is too many cant or wont pay a fair share. If we go to a comprehensive nationalized health care system, I would predict two things, taxes or the debt, or both, will go up significantly, and rationing will need implementation just to control the total costs. Elderly and terminally ill people will be the first to experience rationing, maybe for the good of all, its not all bad.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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The government now runs several health care systems including medicare and military health programs. I don't think that anyone who participates in those programs would like to see them go away. If you are a participant, how would you fare if the program went away? Could you afford private insurance? Would the private insurance be any better? Why don't all americans deserve at least what you have?
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rick&Cheryl View Post
Elderly and terminally ill people will be the first to experience rationing, maybe for the good of all, its not all bad.
!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:08 PM   #10
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There is no way that "free" isnt going to be bad. Before looking at the solution, perhaps we should look into some of the causes for the problem.

1. United States healthcare costs are significantly greather than other countries. Why? What are the specific categories within the healthcare boundaries that are higher than other countries?
2. Why are are the US healthcare malpractice rates so high? Do we have worse doctors on average than other countries?
3. Why are Canadian prices for the same medicines lower than here in the US
4. There seems to be agreement that there are too many unecessary tests. Why? (refer to #2 above)
5. Where is there a good example of a free universal healthcare system in existence already? If there isn't one, why not?

I suspect that, if the truth were really known, the high costs of our current healthcare system have little to do with the healthcare itself and everything to do with the constraints we placed upon it.

Free is never good. Free leads to excess on many, many levels. When people have chronic conditions (morbid obesity, diebetes, high blood pressure) and don't have some personal financial stake in taking actions to help their conditions because they can receive free treatments for their excesses, the costs can only go up.

The amazing part of all of this healthcare debate is the total absence of the voice of our senior population. One of the stated objectives is to have a "conference" every 5 years for seniors. My interpretation of the purpose of that conference is to explain to each of us what we are NOT going to be treated for if it happens to us. It sure looks like a govenment mandated "DNR" to me.
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:08 PM   #11
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Shock?? It was a prediction not fact. "For the good of all, it's not all bad",,doesnt mean we should, but there might be a time I could envision "rationing" happening due to our limited resources. Its similar to the laws of nature, only the strongest will survive and natural selection,,not new and shocking concepts.

You do know our resources are limited,,dont you? Borrowing as we do, only postpones the depth of our future problems. Gosh, I thought that would be clear, considering the recent economic problems we have and are still going thru.
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Old 07-30-2009, 07:05 PM   #12
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Shock?? It was a prediction not fact. "For the good of all, it's not all bad",,doesnt mean we should, but there might be a time I could envision "rationing" happening due to our limited resources. Its similar to the laws of nature, only the strongest will survive and natural selection,,not new and shocking concepts.

You do know our resources are limited,,dont you? Borrowing as we do, only postpones the depth of our future problems. Gosh, I thought that would be clear, considering the recent economic problems we have and are still going thru.
Let's send the old folks out on the ice flows and let them drift away.
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Old 07-30-2009, 07:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by hondo122 View Post
Let's send the old folks out on the ice flows and let them drift away.

Wait, I'm old and got money, if you set me adrift, who will pay for the 10 people I'm supposed to pay for!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-30-2009, 07:37 PM   #14
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WW

I have the military health care plan you talked about. I paid for it already.
22 years worth. Why even think of taking it back.
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