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Old 05-20-2012, 09:54 PM   #155
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It is called a refundable tax credit. With it people who have paid no taxes can get a check back that is cashed for real money. Only in America. Recently it was reported in the news that over $4 BILLION went to the children of illegal aliens children living in Mexico. There are tax preparers in that community that specialize in that way of beating the system. Strange but true.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:36 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Lindsay Richards
It is called a refundable tax credit. With it people who have paid no taxes can get a check back that is cashed for real money. Only in America. Recently it was reported in the news that over $4 BILLION went to the children of illegal aliens children living in Mexico. There are tax preparers in that community that specialize in that way of beating the system. Strange but true.
Please Lindsay, don't take this personally. I've been reading this thread looking at the majority of the statements that, have been made by people who heard it on the news, or have it from some source, or political advertisement. There are actually people on here that think 50% of people pay no taxes. Not only is this a gross overstatement, but this does not take into consideration that these same people pay social security tax, Medicare tax, state tax, local tax, real estate tax, sales tax, and all the other taxes that we all pay. The only difference being that these taxes are a far great portion of these lower income people than higher income earners.

The person earning 1 million a year pays six tenths of one percent of their income for social security. The per on making 20 thousand dollars a year pays 6.2 percent.
Yes the person making 20,000 a year that has one or two children, pays no income tax and gets money from the government. It's called an earned income credit. But they have to pay all the same other taxes the guy who makes 80,000 a year pays, and EVERYTHING they buy costs much more as a percentage of their income thn it does for you.

If you are getting your facts and figures from, FOX NEWS, POLITICAL ADS, Internet sites funded by the former or others with a political agenda, then it's time to look in the mirror. I employ people that make $8.00 an hour, because if I paid them more, my customers making 80,000 a year wouldn't pay the prices I would have to charge to make up for it.

We are complaining about the people WE VOTED FOR, and we continue to vote for and keep in office. We say they are the ones screwing up everything, but we keep paying them and we let them keep their job.

This is our fault, WE THE PEOPLE. We keep taking everything they give us, and in return we let them keep their jobs. If everyone took less, and in return demanded a balanced budget amendment, term limits, and outlawed lobbying, then we could fix the problem.

My answer, OP, IS YES. I will give back if those conditions are met.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:39 AM   #157
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...I taught American government for 22 years and I told every class "If you have no idea who a candidate is, stay home or don't vote for that position". "If your intention is to vote a straight ticket time after time after time, stay home". No party has a monopoly on brains or honesty or good ideas.

If the devil, himself, ran for a particular office, he would be assured of 45% of the vote because he had the wisdom to run as a _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (you fill in the party). We are doomed if we (don't) change our mindset.
Thank you very much! I personally have had it with the party system, one of the reasons I'm registered as an independent. I have always voted a split ticket. If both candidates for an office are equally worthless, I'll vote for myself as a write in candidate to send the message I didn't want either one (I would use Mickey Mouse but they ignore non-persons). If more people would do that, it would tell the victors they don't have a voter mandate and they had better watch their step.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:41 AM   #158
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Indeed! And the way this thread is heating up, I won't even need a stove to pop it. I'll just wave it past my laptop screen
Wave it fast so you don't burn it. Burned popcorn stench is a hard one to get rid of and the popcorn tastes horrible!
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:51 AM   #159
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History has shown that when you increase the tax rates on the rich you do not nessesarily increase revenue to the government. Lawyers, accountants, brokers earn more, charities get bigger gifts.

I have yet to see a definition of "Fair Share". I have heard many folks decry the rich must pay their fair share but how much is that? What is the fair share of a single person making $50k and is his (or her) share any larger or smaller than a married couple making the same thing? Is his share more than a family who chose to have kids? Why should someone who chose to buy a house with a mortgage get a break on their taxes? No other country allows this.

There is a lot of seemingly unfair tax exemptions. But all the ones I get are totaly fair.
You just brought up one of the biggest problems with our tax system: exemptions and deductions. Just changing the tax rates alone won't help anything. A flat tax rate, or even a graduated tax rate, without ANY exemptions, deductions, etc. would go a long way toward correcting the problem. Sure some businesses that exist only because they are tax exempt would suffer or fold but they never should have been allowed to exist in the first place. Cities should be outlawed from giving tax breaks to attract new businesses, etc. That way everyone will pay their fair share. It would also cut down on corruption, reduce government expenses (talk about streamlining the IRS!), etc.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:52 AM   #160
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The only fair tax is a flat tax. And ALL should pay.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:49 AM   #161
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First of all, I was talking of federal income taxes. The 49.5% and rising figure is correct and undeniable. It is what is used to run the US government. Half of the people are freeloading and also complaining they are not getting enough. Not often repeated on the main stream media, but correct. Social Security, Medicare, ETC are not taxes, but insurance programs. They are premiums, not taxes. You mention about the millionaire paying a lower % of taxes on the money he earned (yes earned, not because he won life's lottery). Do you not realize that the benefits of social security are capped as well as the deductions? Do you think that we should continue to take insurance premiums beyond the level where benefits are paid. Is this the kind of redistribution of wealth that was envisioned by our founders. you 6.2% figure does not take into account the employer portion and 15.3% is the correct figure (assuming that the temporary 2% loan from SS is soon restored). In my former life, I employed many of the people who were reaping the benefits of America without contributing much to it. Contrary to what has been said, there are a large number of free loaders, many of which go back generations. I too would be happy to give up some benefits, but not without fixing these problems and getting some of these able bodied people off the couch and have them go to work (work, you know where you go in and trade hours for dollars.) America used to pay it's youth to work for society (CCC). Now we pay them to stand on the corner and sell crack cocaine.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:01 AM   #162
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First of all, I was talking of federal income taxes. The 49.5% and rising figure is correct and undeniable. It is what is used to run the US government. Half of the people are freeloading and also complaining they are not getting enough. Not often repeated on the main stream media, but correct. Social Security, Medicare, ETC are not taxes, but insurance programs. They are premiums, not taxes. You mention about the millionaire paying a lower % of taxes on the money he earned (yes earned, not because he won life's lottery). Do you not realize that the benefits of social security are capped as well as the deductions? Do you think that we should continue to take insurance premiums beyond the level where benefits are paid. Is this the kind of redistribution of wealth that was envisioned by our founders. you 6.2% figure does not take into account the employer portion and 15.3% is the correct figure (assuming that the temporary 2% loan from SS is soon restored). In my former life, I employed many of the people who were reaping the benefits of America without contributing much to it. Contrary to what has been said, there are a large number of free loaders, many of which go back generations. I too would be happy to give up some benefits, but not without fixing these problems and getting some of these able bodied people off the couch and have them go to work (work, you know where you go in and trade hours for dollars.) America used to pay it's youth to work for society (CCC). Now we pay them to stand on the corner and sell crack cocaine.


Please provide non-partisan fact based documentation to back up your statements
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:11 AM   #163
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This is not my day to provide such basic information that should be known by everybody having an opinion here, but it actually took only a minute to find. I have included two sources (both a little outdated, but correcct). You can easily find the data for 2010 if you wish. One is the Huffington Post, the liberal house organ. Since, you asked, please study them as questions will follow. Please post a link to any data that refutes this keeping in mind we are talking about Federal Income taxes.

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Old 05-21-2012, 07:15 AM   #164
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I don't think it is unreasonable for many people to work until they are 70. That's what I plan on doing.
Yikes! We retired at 52 and 53. No SS for us for seven years minimum.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:56 AM   #165
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For those of you who would want a flat tax, be careful what you wish for. Right now 75% of all taxes are paid by 5% of the poplulation. If we went to a flat tax, then who do you think would have to make up that difference? If you want to go to a flat tax system then you had better be ready to pay substantially more in taxes.

Another idea that has been brought up is the idea of a consumption tax. Great idea....on paper, lousy idea in reality. For those of us who have a sales tax in our own state, what did your sales tax rate start out as? Ours was 2% and now it's close to 9%. A consumption tax is nothing but a blank check for the government. It is easy to raise billions by just a fraction of a point. The problem becomes a big one when you suddenly realize that your fraction of a point in increased sales tax becomes several points.

The earned income credit is one of the most abused parts of our tax law. I have one person who comes in who is unmarried, but lives with a guy. She has two children and a W-2 for $24,000. With all the giveaways her combined state and federal refunds are around $11,000.

We have all paid Medicare taxes for quite a few years. There is a shocker in even the Medicare system. One of my clients hit age 65 this past year and because he works for a company with less than 50 employees he HAS to sign up for Medicare. They encouraged him to sign up for the supplemental insurance offered by his local HMO. So he trots down to their office and listens to the various options and decides to take the "free" option because he's a pretty healthy guy. So in completing the paperwork he notices a comment about commissions in the paperwork. He asks the clerk about the term commissions. He tells her he thought the insurance was free. She says, "Oh it is. For you." He asks her who it isn't free for and she tells him the taxpayers. The insurance company is paid $881 a month for his "free" supplement. On top of that he is still working and is paying $152 a month for his share of the Medicare. Bottom line is that he has a single policy that is a pretty bad policy that costs him and the taxpayers $1033 per month. How's that for your tax dollars at work?

Does the tax code need to be revised? Does Social Security need to be revised? On both counts the answer has to be absolutely yes. However, most Americans are only willing to see revisions that don't effect them. As long as we continue with that mindset, nothing will change.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:43 AM   #166
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Wow, HOT TOPIC! Back to the subject of SS...I'll say, yes, I'll accept a reduced amount but I'll be screaming from my soap-box if it's not part of a larger attempt to balance a lot more than just SS.

A couple weeks ago, I was reading a a forum that discusses retirement issues. There was a thread discussing SS issues and someone posted a link to a web site that reviewed various scenerios of how to fix SS. I think it was on the the SS web site. I'll continue to look for it and post the link if I can find it.

Someone posted the following information about SS caps. This info looks about right, I am assuming it's accurate. It's all about demograghics and the changes have been an attempt to stay ahead of the curve. Very interesting.

In 1954 the max SS tax was on your first $3,600 wages... which in today's dollars would be the first $28,862 of your salary

In 1975 the max SS tax was on your first $14,100 wages... which in today's dollars would be the first $56,488 of your salary

In 1995 the max SS tax was on your first $61,200 wages... which in today's dollars would be the first $86,686 of your salary

In 2011 the max SS tax was on your first $106,800 wages... which is today's dollars
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:10 AM   #167
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Only in America could the rich people who pay 86% of all income taxes be accused of not paying their “fair share” by people who don’t pay any income taxes at all.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:21 AM   #168
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We used to admire the rich and try to emulate them. Now they are vilified. They pay the taxes and get yelled at for not paying enough. Working hard, working smart and being a success for you and your family has been the norm since the start of our country and I sure hate to see it trashed. Everybody should be paying some taxes.
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