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Old 05-22-2012, 07:12 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by gray ghost View Post
From CNN website: "
October 11, 2002

In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.
Hours earlier, the House approved an identical resolution, 296-133.
The president praised the congressional action, declaring "America speaks with one voice."
"The Congress has spoken clearly to the international community and the United Nations Security Council," Bush said in a statement. "Saddam Hussein and his outlaw regime pose a grave threat to the region, the world and the United States. Inaction is not an option, disarmament is a must."...
I stand...er...sit corrected.

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...Actually Saddam had quite a bit of history in the WMD area. He used a lot of chemical weapons during the Iran/Iraq War, and later used them against Iraqis, the last time being March of 1991 (Iraqi chemical weapons program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The weapons he used on his own people included sarin gas and mustard gas. Sarin is a nerve agent, a really nasty way to die. Mustard has it's roots back in WWI, most of the survivors of that particular agent were debilitated for some time. And in at least one interview after the invasion, one of Saddam's own generals stated that even his commanders thought that the Iraqi military possessed WMD up to the time of the invasion.
True, Hussein had a history of WMD, but for some time prior to the invasion, both U.N. and U.S. inspectors had found no evidence that they still existed in Iraq prior to the invasion. The accuracy of that was borne out during the invasion.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:24 PM   #282
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...You can buy a t-shirt in a couple local joints (pardon the pun) that have a picture of the "zigzag man" from the French rolling papers, and the slogan "I just got rolled in Zigzag Oregon". They're pretty big sellers.
Ok, that was just too funny, especially the pun!
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:29 PM   #283
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PatStab,

Doesn't your daughter qualify for Social Security Disability? If she is on Medicare then she should be able to draw SSI. Also you mentioned that you sold a piece of land and then had to pay back some social security. The sale of land is a capital gains transaction and not earned income so that should not have made any effect on your social security. Just curious about the specifics.

I don't think anyone on here, or at least I would hope not, is even remotely suggesting that those who cannot take care of themselves would be left to live in the streets. This whole discussion is related to a problem and how do we fix it. My concern is very much for people like your daughter. What do they do when the money runs out because people who don't need the funds have taken them.

As I mentioned early in this entire thread, I have a client who qualified for SSI becuase he got too fat to work. He got so big that he says he wants the operation to staple his stomach, but he can't get it until he gets below 500 pounds. Now this guy qualifies for full social security disabiliity yet he is healthy enough to hook up a fifth wheel and drive it to Florida and back every winter. There is something majorly wrong with this picture.

Or try this one. A guy comes into my office who is also on SSI for a bad back. Now first off he reeks of cigarette smoke at $10 a pack here in NY. He proceeds to tell me that he was doing a cash job for a guy when he fell off the ladder and now he's suing the contractor and the home owner. According to this guy, he can still make $12,000 a uear amd collect full SSI.

Pat, if we could correct some of the many abuses within the system it could be saved for people like your daughter. Like you said, you and your husband and me and my wife and many others witll be okay with SS income. It would be hard but we would be okay. It's the people who have no choices in the matter that concern me the most.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:32 PM   #284
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Taxman - Sure, I think we agree that SS should be a stand-alone proposition, meaning that it should be solvent and should no longer be commingled with other funds, agencies, budgets, etc. And given that scope, I would certainly favor any honest and fair efforts to right the sinking ship. You probably found in my posts that I am a believer in the 'greater good'. People come and go, but societies and nations lumber on....

As for Zigzag -- yes, it is a very small community in the foothills of Mt Hood in NW Oregon's Cascade range. It was named by early wagon train pioneers because the community was the first encampment reached after "zigging and zagging" their wagons down the treacherous western slope of Mt Hood. It's smack-dab on the Oregon Trail. Also, the Zigzag river runs down the same slope, and was probably named for the same reason, although there is some disagreement.

You can buy a t-shirt in a couple local joints (pardon the pun) that have a picture of the "zigzag man" from the French rolling papers, and the slogan "I just got rolled in Zigzag Oregon". They're pretty big sellers.
Steel, I didn't know if the Zigzag tag line had something to do with the other major agriculture west of the Cascades.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:33 PM   #285
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...I made the comment that in tax law the burden of proof is always on the taxpayer. Oh my gosh, you would have thought that I had just insulted motherhood, apple pie and the flag...
I wouldn't have busted your chops over that because it's true. It does toast my tush, though. So much for innocent until proven guilty.

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...Seems like years ago I remember a special paper purchased by hippies that was called Zigzag.
They are still around. Zigzag makes a variety of rolling papers and they are used by more people than just hippies. Many actually use tobacco in them (custom blends).
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:41 PM   #286
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I wouldn't have busted your chops over that because it's true. It does toast my tush, though. So much for innocent until proven guilty.



They are still around. Zigzag makes a variety of rolling papers and they are used by more people than just hippies. Many actually use tobacco in them (custom blends).

Lady Fitz, the irony of this is that when I was stationed at Williams AFB in Chandler I had a part time job working in a U-Totem market in Apache Junction. That's where I first came across ZigZag. We sold a lot of them in that store. So my connection, in marketing only I might add, to the product is from right down the road from you.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:08 PM   #287
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Yes I mean retiring at age 53 and planning to take full SS payments at age 67 which is my full SS age. I think you thought I wanted my SS at 53. I don't mean that at all. Besides my reduced (defined) union pension, a company 401k, traditional IRA, Roth IRA & and other savings, I have "earned" the right to enjoy the rest of my life, free to travel and RV on my time. I also have a few other money make things I do on the side. __________________
Just a follow-up on my earlier post.

Others said or implied you should work till your mid 60's or later..." No one should retire in their 50's.... " When you have a job that takes a physical toll on your body, working till your body quits is no option. Where I work there are two sets of workers. 1) people who have planned well ahead thru-out their earning years to retire at a respectable age. 2) people living week to week approaching their 40's and 50's with no real plan...just keep working....

Even though having paid into SS over a lifetime, I only view it as a bonus in my later years. But, I still view it as a part of my retire equation.

I see too many fellow workers having already put in 40+ years where an aging body has taken a toll on their well being....To me that is no retirement to look forward to.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:22 PM   #288
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So what kind of work do you do?
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:02 PM   #289
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Lady Fitz, the irony of this is that when I was stationed at Williams AFB in Chandler I had a part time job working in a U-Totem market in Apache Junction. That's where I first came across ZigZag. We sold a lot of them in that store. So my connection, in marketing only I might add, to the product is from right down the road from you.
I remember seeing the Zigzag brand since I was a kid but my most recent exposure was during the time I worked at Circle K for 5 1/2 years up to about three years ago when I get fed up with the b.S. there. I've never smoked, tobacco or wacky tobacccy, so I didn'tr get my experience there.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:06 PM   #290
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Just a follow-up on my earlier post.

Others said or implied you should work till your mid 60's or later..." No one should retire in their 50's.... " When you have a job that takes a physical toll on your body, working till your body quits is no option. Where I work there are two sets of workers. 1) people who have planned well ahead thru-out their earning years to retire at a respectable age. 2) people living week to week approaching their 40's and 50's with no real plan...just keep working....

Even though having paid into SS over a lifetime, I only view it as a bonus in my later years. But, I still view it as a part of my retire equation.

I see too many fellow workers having already put in 40+ years where an aging body has taken a toll on their well being....To me that is no retirement to look forward to.
I'm in the same boat. My body started falling apart from heavy work (warehousing plus part time jobs) in my mid fifties.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:42 PM   #291
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So you're OK with everyone paying something to care for the less fortunate, elderly who can't but try to take care of themselves just don't collect it as part of the social security tax?
Sounds like a simple question, Wildtoad. But, it's not....

It doesn't really matter to me how it's collected, SS is fine. I'm much more concerned about how it gets doled out. Let me say this:

I think societies that make an effort to care for their sick and wounded are more civilized than those who do not. I've seen some serious misery, especially in SE Asia as well as the Southeastern US. I wouldn't want my family in those situations, and I doubt you would either.

At this stage of my life, I am still paying my share of taxes, and I hope part of that is going toward humanitarian assistance. We call ourselves a rich country with a high standard of living. Maybe we should share a bit more of that standard. Albeit, we should do it with a system that works better....

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, and I, like most everybody else, worked hard for the things I own; but I believe in the virtues of sharing and caring for human life. PLUS, I don't love paying high taxes any more than other folks.

In attempting to directly answer your question, if it comes from SS taxes (or whatever you want to call it) that I've paid into, that's fine with me. I've already made my opinions known on freeloaders using the system, the unwelcome politicization of the SS fund, government waste, etc. The SS disability system is flawed, probably fatally, so I'm not too happy paying for that stuff. Healthy people should work, just like us....

But I stand by my belief that we should TRY to help those with LEGITIMATE needs. If it comes from SS, fine. If it comes from state Medicaid, fine. Property taxes to fund a county hospital, okay....

If I haven't answered your question, please get back, I'll take another shot....
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:57 PM   #292
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LadyFitz, please see my comments in italics.



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As I recall, the vote from Congress came after the start of the invasion.

The vote happened on October 16, 2002, the invasion on 19 March 2003



Iran does have nuclear capability yet we are not invading them.........We have a bad habit of not learning from history, such as the folly of fighting on two fronts (lessons we should have learned from Napoleon and Hitler).

Two wars going, Iran would be three. And, a week after a Iranian war is over, what would you say if there were no intentions by the Iranians to create a bomb. Wouldn't that be like Iraq and how they refused to allow us to go into Hussein's palaces to search for WMDs which he had used in the past against his own people ?



I still have to face the fact that we have been in many wars we had no business being in, such as the War of 1812 (that was probably the stupidest act we ever committed) the Spanish/American War, and Vietnam.

The Americans declared war in 1812 for several reasons, including trade restrictions brought about by Britain's ongoing war with France, the impressment of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, and British support of American Indian tribes against American expansion.

Napoleon was defeated in 1814. The British were defeated in 1815 after we repulsed their invasions of three large armies sent to New York, Baltimore, and New Orleans. So, their defeat had nothing to do with Napoleon. The battleship the Maine was the reason the Spanish American war was touched off, unless you want to claim it was blown up by our own country. But that would be tantamount to 9/11 truthers. Your hindsight of Vietnam is 20/20.


The Constitution provides for the common defense of our country.

I agree with you on the issue of not wanting to lose the Social Security we have paid for over a lifetime; but, I'm not seeing answers to how we are going to do it that responsibly. Except from whomever had the numerically listed points.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:37 AM   #293
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Rubix, I was hoping someone would jump in with some sound ideas on how to save the system other than the generic, throw the politicians out and the like. To me this should be the ideal forum for this type of discussion. Most of us are either on SS or near to the time we will be taking it. Most of us tend to be a little bit better off than the average person out there.

When I started this thread I had my ideas of what might work to correct the problems with the system. I delinieated those earlier. I was wondering if someone else may have some better ideas than those coming from a CPA in rural Upstate NY.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:00 AM   #294
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Hasn't the cure for SS shortfall already been introduced into the financial system in the form of Quantitative Easing (printing money or inflation) along with tightening of the COLA's.
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