Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > Just Conversation
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-23-2012, 11:38 AM   #295
Senior Member
 
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 1,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubix cube View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubix cube View Post
As I recall, the vote from Congress came after the start of the invasion.

The vote happened on October 16, 2002, the invasion on 19 March 2003

I have already conceded this (which you acknowledged in a later PM. No worries).

Iran does have nuclear capability yet we are not invading them.........We have a bad habit of not learning from history, such as the folly of fighting on two fronts (lessons we should have learned from Napoleon and Hitler).

Two wars going, Iran would be three. And, a week after a Iranian war is over, what would you say if there were no intentions by the Iranians to create a bomb. Wouldn't that be like Iraq and how they refused to allow us to go into Hussein's palaces to search for WMDs which he had used in the past against his own people ?

Even at the time we invaded Iraq, Iran was more of a threat to us than Iraq. Iran was known to be harboring terrorists. And again, despite Hussein's past, U.N. and U.S. inspection teams had found no evidence of WMD still being in Iraq. If Hussien's palaces proved to be such a concern (and it would have been a local concern, not ours), a few well placed missiles would have neutralized them with little or no loss of American life. We are supposedly out of Iraq now (we still have some personnel there; they just aren't shooting at anyone) yet no one has mentioned invading Iran.

I still have to face the fact that we have been in many wars we had no business being in, such as the War of 1812 (that was probably the stupidest act we ever committed) the Spanish/American War, and Vietnam.

The Americans declared war in 1812 for several reasons, including trade restrictions brought about by Britain's ongoing war with France, the impressment of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, and British support of American Indian tribes against American expansion.

Napoleon was defeated in 1814. The British were defeated in 1815 after we repulsed their invasions of three large armies sent to New York, Baltimore, and New Orleans. So, their defeat had nothing to do with Napoleon. The battleship the Maine was the reason the Spanish American war was touched off, unless you want to claim it was blown up by our own country. But that would be tantamount to 9/11 truthers. Your hindsight of Vietnam is 20/20.

The impressment of U.S. sailors was a very valid beef against Britain; trade restrictions less so but still valid to a degree. Brit. support of Native Americans against our stealing their land was not a valid point (it wasn't our land to take, despite the deplorable policy of Manifest Destiny). The reason we had no business getting into that war was we did not have a viable military. Communication within the army was a joke. We lost most of our forts along the Canadian border simply because (in addition to generally being incompetent) the fort commandants had no clue we were at war until the Canadian Brits. showed up on our doorstep announcing that we were at war and we had just lost our fort. The takeovers were so fast, little or no blood was shed. The only reason we repulsed them at sea was they didn't wish to waste resources on a war they had no intention of winning (a lesson we should have learned from them before we escalated Vietnam). When the Brits. attacked Washington, they didn't occupy it because they didn't want to win the war. They just wanted to slap our wrists so they contented themselves with just burning it (a calculated insult). The only resistance we put up was to run with our tails tucked between our legs, the wisest choice we could have made (other than not starting a war we had no hope of winning) since they would have beaten the snot out of us. There were no winners in that one sided war. The Brits. didn't want us (we were too big a pain in the rear and it would have disrupted trade) and we wanted out because of the licking we had taken. The war was ended as a draw by mutual agreement with the Treaty of Ghent in December of 1814. We never beat the Brits.; the opposite was closer to the truth. Don't believe everything you lerned in American History. Canadian and British students are being taught the exact opposite of what we were taught with the truth lying somewhere between.

There was never any evidence the blowing up of the Maine in Havana Harbor was an act of sabatoge of any kind, let alone an act of Spanish aggression. Steamships of the time were known to blow up from boiler failure, accidents in munitions magazines, etc. The incident was a poor reason for initiating a war (we had more provocation when Pancho Villa raided on U.S. soil yet, other than Pershing chasing him into Mexico, we didn't go to war over it) and was most likely an excuse for continuing our shameful and arrogant policy of Manifest Destiny to the south since we had run into a little bit of water to the west.

While I wasn't a protestor, I never was convinced during Vietnam that it was a war to protect our freedom (there goes the 20/20 hindsight theory). We had no interests to protect there other than a token effort to stop the Red Tide. We never intended to win that war which should have been evident to anyone with a brain during that time. It was an economic war intended to boost industry in this country, thus increasing the tax base (which was doomed to fail had the war continued longer since the product being generated was also being destroyed). What it did do was create strife and division in this country. Granted, many of the protestors just didn't want to risk dying over there but most saw the stupidity of being in a hypocritical war that was senselessly killing and maiming people. Even if my obsevation was 20/20 hindsight, it still would be another example that we have a habit of getting into wars we have no business getting into.

The Constitution provides for the common defense of our country.

No argument but it doesn't really apply here.

I agree with you on the issue of not wanting to lose the Social Security we have paid for over a lifetime; but, I'm not seeing answers to how we are going to do it that responsibly. Except from whomever had the numerically listed points.


For starters:

Restore the SS tax to what it was before Obama reduced it.

Allow the Bush tax cuts to expire (I don't like taxes any more than anyone else but the country can't continue to spend money it isn't taking in and those tax cuts were ill advised in the first place, let alone being allowed to continue, even with the recession).

Wrap things up in Afghanistan.

Continue to protect our country as necessary but quit trying to be the world's police force; we can't (and never could) afford it.

Get and keep government out of private business. The recent bailouts, overall, were a massive flop and just served to prolong unstable businesses that are incapable of standing on their own two feet and thus deserve to die. Very little relief trickled down to John Q. Public (most notably in the banking industry; besides, why should my tax money be used to subsidize people foolish enough to get into mortgages they couldn't afford, especially since I was responsible enough to make sure I didn't get in over my head!?). The same goes for industries that can't survive without government subsidies.

One reason we are paying through the nose (and a few other places) for petroleum products, etc. because much of what is being produced here is being sent overseas. Why aren't the Feds taxing that any more than they already are? That would be a nice little income stream the government could use and we would get some relief from high gas prices.

Lose "Obamacare." We need something to clean up our top heavy, corruption ridden health care system but "Obamacare" was a hastily conceived, poorly planned, excessively complex, and overpriced piece of...um...legislation that's doomed to fail (and cost us a fortune in the process). It took decades for our health system to get so screwed up and it will take that long to fix it. Throwing money the government doesn't have at it is not the answer. (I'm actually more worried about the fate of Medicare than I am Social Security since the medical insurance I have will be tied to it when I hit 65 in a couple of years.)

Take SS funds out of the general fund (where the funds never should have been placed) and restore what was stolen. Taxes may have to be raised to do so (over what they should be now) but they will be taxes that should have been levied to pay for the perks that were paid for with stolen SS funds.
__________________

__________________
LadyFitz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-23-2012, 12:31 PM   #296
Senior Member
 
steelheadbluesman's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zigzag, OR
Posts: 1,056
My popcorn machine is hummin'!!
__________________

__________________
'07 Itasca 35L/W22 FULL-TIMING
1000 Trails - VFW - 5 Yrs Army
"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST"
steelheadbluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 02:09 PM   #297
Senior Member
 
Rubix cube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 111
This is one of the easiest to read articles on Social Security, with footnotes that take you to other associated articles outside of Wikipedia, as well as links on topics covered by Wikipedia.

An outline of areas, many which we have touched on, is about a page down. Including Demographic and revenue projections
Social Security (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

December of 2010, a Presidential bipartisan National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform made ten recommendations to sustain Social Security, starting on page 48 of this 66 page PDF. It takes a few seconds to down load.
http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/site...h12_1_2010.pdf
__________________
Dave Foghorn
2011 Pleasure Way Plateau TS
& soon, 2012 Mini Clubman S toad
Rubix cube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 02:24 PM   #298
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 2,801
Dave,

Thanks so much for those links. Very informative information. Some of their proposals are also included in mine. One very important item that they didn't address was a strenghtening of the disability requirements. I think that is really necessary for improvement.
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390bh (traded) 2018.5 Entegra Aspire 44R on order
wnytaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 02:37 PM   #299
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 71
It seems there is little agreement here on SS.
so there is less chance of agreement in congress.

so, they are likely, to do again, what congress did in the past.
Kick The Can Down The Road.

JMO, but, the way america has a chance of resolving its financial problems, is two words. Term Limits.
maybe congress would do what's best for the country
and not their next election.
__________________
RayN
2000 Safari Trek 7.4L
raycon9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 02:51 PM   #300
Senior Member
 
steelheadbluesman's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zigzag, OR
Posts: 1,056
The 2nd link offered by Rubix cube Dave, above, is incredibly informative, as it discusses historical foundations for the issues of crushing debt burden, problems with the tax system, and the myriad disappointments with social spending via SS. Unfortunately, the proposed solutions (and there are some good ones IMO) require that voters demand that their representatives on both sides of the aisle give up their "pork barrel" ways and do what is best for future generations....

When has that happened in the last fifty years?

It is well worth a good look, and I sure saw some eye-popping data! Thanks, Dave, for an intelligent contribution.
__________________
'07 Itasca 35L/W22 FULL-TIMING
1000 Trails - VFW - 5 Yrs Army
"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST"
steelheadbluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 03:21 PM   #301
Senior Member
 
FRR2EYW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Front Royal, Va.
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFitz... View Post
[RIGHT][/I]


One reason we are paying through the nose (and a few other places) for petroleum products, etc. because much of what is being produced here is being sent overseas. Why aren't the Feds taxing that any more than they already are? That would be a nice little income stream the government could use and we would get some relief from high gas prices.

]
2011 was the first year since 1949 that the US exported more oil than it imported. You say keep it at home and tax it. I fail to see how that would reduce prices. As I tried to explain earlier, it is a commodity. Price is based on supply, demand, and speculation about both. It is a world market so if we didn't sell ours, somebody else would stop selling to us and sell to another who would pay more.

Social Security is in desperate need of true reform. It will require sacrifice by everybody. It has been identified as being in trouble for the last 25 years. It should actually be eliminated. Let those young enough save for their own retirement. Fund the payments to those who are older out of tax revenue (we already do that). If you don't plan for and save for your own retirement, too bad. I personally do not believe the government has any business providing sustenance to people. Many people in this country feel they are entitled to way too much.
__________________
Shawn M.
2011 Fleetwood Expedition
2014 Chevy Traverse
FRR2EYW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 03:35 PM   #302
Senior Member
 
Dav5942's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Oklawaha RV Resort(\
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelheadbluesman View Post
The 2nd link offered by Rubix cube Dave, above, is incredibly informative, as it discusses historical foundations for the issues of crushing debt burden, problems with the tax system, and the myriad disappointments with social spending via SS. Unfortunately, the proposed solutions (and there are some good ones IMO) require that voters demand that their representatives on both sides of the aisle give up their "pork barrel" ways and do what is best for future generations....

When has that happened in the last fifty years?

It is well worth a good look, and I sure saw some eye-popping data! Thanks, Dave, for an intelligent contribution.
Nothing new in the report that hasn't been apparent for many years-now we have lost TWO more years since the report was written which has componded the problem! Wake up America!!!
__________________
Outlaw LS '16 JK Ruby '13 TJ '04 Ruby XJ '98-all built for Moab, HD Trike '15, AC Wildcat Trail in garage
http://picasaweb.google.com/dav5942/...T2AlaskaBeyond
Dav5942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 03:35 PM   #303
Senior Member
 
Lindsay Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
2011 was the first year since 1949 that the US exported more oil than it imported.
This is totally untrue. We still import about 45% of our oil usage. We did drop below 50 % imports due to the recession. We did export gasoline last year which is a good and bad thing. The reason we exported it was that demand was down due to the recession. We had the capacity to import foreign oil and add value to it by refining it and exporting. This helps our balance of payments. Exports of oil products like plastics and fertilizer are also up. I think we have the ability to be totally domestic on oil at some time in the future due to the new technology of hydrolic fracking, but it wasn't 2011.
__________________
http://www.linandnancy.com
Lindsay Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 03:36 PM   #304
Senior Member
 
steelheadbluesman's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zigzag, OR
Posts: 1,056
[QUOTE=FRR2EYW; Many people in this country feel they are entitled to way too much.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely true....
__________________
'07 Itasca 35L/W22 FULL-TIMING
1000 Trails - VFW - 5 Yrs Army
"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST"
steelheadbluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 03:41 PM   #305
Senior Member
 
steelheadbluesman's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zigzag, OR
Posts: 1,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav5942 View Post
Nothing new in the report that hasn't been apparent for many years-now we have lost TWO more years since the report was written which has componded the problem! Wake up America!!!
Wow! You already knew all that stuff, including all the data tables? My hat is off to you, sir....
__________________
'07 Itasca 35L/W22 FULL-TIMING
1000 Trails - VFW - 5 Yrs Army
"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST"
steelheadbluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 04:07 PM   #306
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsay Richards View Post
We did export gasoline last year which is a good and bad thing. The reason we exported it was that demand was down due to the recession.
Just a point of order that has little or nothing to do with SS. The US exports diesel to Europe and imports gasoline from Europe. This has to do with refining "cuts". Due to differing emissions regulations, around half or more of the new vehicles sold in Europe are diesel-powered, whereas our EPA regulations discourage the use of diesel fuel. Therefore, the fuels go where the global demand is. The US refiners have an excess of diesel and a shortage of gasoline, but diesel is a global commodity also in demand in developing economies for construction and power generation (China and India are two key markets.)

Because of the glut of natural gas that has come onto the US market because of new drilling and production technology, natural gas prices in the US have plummeted. This has producers looking for export markets and investing in the construction of LNG terminals to liquefy the gas and load it onto LNG tanker ships.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 05:28 PM   #307
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnytaxman View Post
Tom, would you be in favor of a decrease in SS payments starting at an income of $150,000 and a total elimination of benefits once someone reaches $250,000 in income? I think that may be one way to help reduce the burden somewhat. The obvious one is to increase the retirement age which is probably way overdue. I don't think it is unreasonable for many people to work until they are 70. That's what I plan on doing.

Disability payments have got to become more strict. I have one client who started getting SS disability because he got too fat to work. Now he's too fat to work a job, but he's healthy enough to hook up a fifth wheel and drive to Florida and back every winter.
The only thing obvious in this quote is that you have not worked in a physically demanding occupation. With all due respect, Taxman, raising the retirement age would be fine for someone like yourself who sits at a desk in an air conditioned/heated building, but completely unfair for most Americans. This is the problem, people who make decisions for us don't understand what it's like to be a working class American.
__________________
alba07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 05:46 PM   #308
Senior Member
 
Lindsay Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,644
I have yet to see any data that proves that people with physically demanding occupations have a substantially lower life expectancy. Those who have a small business and have 24/7/365 stress of trying to keep the wolves from the door have a whole lot of adverse medical problems. I looked for information on this with little success except for information put out by some unions which looked very suspect to me. We all have the option of changing occupations if we suspect the one we have is killing us.
__________________

__________________
http://www.linandnancy.com
Lindsay Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.