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Old 05-28-2012, 01:34 PM   #407
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Well said.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:46 PM   #408
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That's a very good point Mike. The original intent of the Tea Party seemed to be political change and it has been characterized by the Media as a right wing fringe group. My question then would have to be how do we effect change? I think most of us are a few billion short of running for President, so what do we do?
I find my self astounded that you'd think Mike has a good point, with what he said.

It may be a perception that the Tea Party has been characterized by the media as a right wing fringe group; BUT, that would only be because others don't like their political might. A USA Today/Gallup poll conducted in March 2010, found that 28% of those surveyed considered themselves supporters of the Tea Party movement, 26% were opponents, and 46% were neither. Hardly fringe group numbers.

While it is perfectly alright to not agree with their politics, it is totally disingenuous or wishful thinking that they are a fringe group, or that they are racist in nature. BOTH of these are lies are meant to disenfranchise the organization by those scared of its lawful message.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:59 PM   #409
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When folks start to bash each other, it's time for me to bid Adios to this thread.......
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:01 PM   #410
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One major point to be considered. If any changes were to be made to SS, either in the form of less $$$ at payout, more put in from you or extend out the age on when you get your benefits, what happens to the 50 to early 60 year olds who have counted on SS for a part of their retirement equation.

I have heard that if SS changes were implemented, anyone under the age of 55 would follow the "new" rules. In my opinion that is too late for a person to change his retirement planning to accommodate any new rules.

In my Union pension there was a "Double Dipping" provision...The Union a long time ago saw that it was going to be a problem to fund in the future, so it capped the amount you can earn back to what you have as far as pension credits to the year 1999. So in a another 10 or 15 years that pension option will no long be....

You see point, this was done 13 years ago and being fazed out over the next 25 years. Instead of SS changes that could affect a person who was 54 years old and having to go under any new SS age caps....I plan to retire at 53.....
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:07 PM   #411
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I might point out that the "fringe group" on the right did manage to get 67 members of the house and 2 members of the senate elected in the last election. That isn't done with a huge amount of support of many Americans. Many things can not be compromises upon. How do you compromise on the death penalty for example? The America system is set up for the people to take out of office the people who hold policies they do not think can be compromised with. We are in the process of this seismic change right now. Social Security is such an issue. I think compromise will lead to more of the mush we are in now. I think sweeping changes will be required to fix the problems.
I agree. I suspect there will be a "shellacking" in the Senate this time around. The Senate Majority leader has tried to protect his 23 up for re-election members by not allowing them to open their mouths, or vote, on 19 bills sent from the House concerning the Budget. Something we haven't had over the last 3 and a half years. What he doesn't realize is by the fact that they haven't replaced him as their leader speaks volumes.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #412
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When folks start to bash each other, it's time for me to bid Adios to this thread.......
I agree Steelheadbluesman. I am merely pointing out inaccuracies. Do I need to apologize to someone ? I am willing to, if I have attacked them directly.

I enjoy being factual in my content and setting the record straight. I will always provide reputable sources for my statements or admit I may be wrong when the case warrants.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:49 PM   #413
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Folks, responses are getting a bit too personal. Please remember this Community Rule:

Thank you,
Lori-
There are two choices available here, close the thread or delete replies and I'm of the camp for not closing a thread.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:20 PM   #414
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Fair share paid by the rich? What is the definition of "fair share", 50%, 75%, 110%? I am not rich by anyone’s definition so I do not have a dog in this fight but I will tell you one thing, I am tired of it all...the class warfare! We can give Washington all of our money and they would find a way to need more. We do not have a tax problem, we have a spending problem. Every time they talk about cutting back they always talk about Social Security, Medicare, and the Defense Budget. There are 14 other Federal Departments that no one ever talks about. Many of these Departments grow year after year and they are not mandated by our constitution whereas the Dept of Defense is spelled out in the constitution (National Defense). Social Security managed correctly over the years there would not be a problem but we allowed our lawmakers to get their crooked hands on the money and now you see where we are! They create a problem so they can campaign on fixing the very problem they created…we are so stupid!

I look at this debate like I do when our local school system has a budget problem, do they scale back the workforce? No, they cut school busing, this has a direct impact on every parent, hit them where it hurts and they will cough up the money for the things we want. Washington pulls the same kind of stunt on a much larger scale!

I have not started drawing social security and when I do next year (66 years old) I will be the first person in my family who has lived long enough to take back some of what we have collectively paid into this system. Over my lifetime between me and my employers we have paid in over $270,000 into social security not to mention the money my Father, Mother, Brother (his wife), Sister (her husband) have paid and never collecting the first dollar.

Do we need to do something...a BIG YES! We can look back at past Presidents who tried to introduce reform and they had their heads handed to them. As recently as Bush #2, he tried in his first term and our lawmaker and their misinformation stopped him cold.

There are a ton of people sucking on the Social Security nipple that have never paid a dime into the system. It is broke because all of our lawmakers have used it like their personal piggy bank, not to mention all the fraud and waste and using the system for what it was not intended. Now when it comes to my turn I am being told we are broke, we need to cut back on those who have paid into this Ponzi scheme all their working lives. How do you think I should answer this question? Tell you what, give me a tax free check for my $270K and I will go away.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:26 PM   #415
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Do I need to apologize to someone ? I am willing to, if I have attacked them directly.
You have nothing to apologize for. Anybody that didn't appreciate your Foghorn Leghorn routine has never watched cartoons with their kids..! Plus, every word you typed was on the money (well at least the words I knew the meaning of). :-)

There were a couple of unwarranted flames posted that were thankfully, deleted. Thanks to those posters, as this is an interesting thread. I must admit that I have read every one of the posts on these 30 pages, and that is a feat in itself. I think the problem is with the question, or maybe the topic, where the perception is that the answer is a simple "yes" or "no".

Who wants to give the govt more of their money if there's a doubt that it will receive good stewardship. I think many of the posters answering "no way" would answer differently if they trusted our congress and administration to solve the problem with a sustainable solution. But then, many of us think that we've been going down this road too long, and that the citizenry will not tolerate necessary steps of austerity.

Look at Greece. Their economy is most certainly doomed, yet as they are swirling down the toilet bowl they are still rioting in the streets in defiance, to maintain all the entitlements they have given themselves. I don't get it, what is the mentality that doesn't grasp the fact that a govt cannot spend more than it takes in, any more than an individual can.

Sustainability...... Until our governing bodies, AND the citizens of this country understand sustainability, insist on sustainability, accept nothing less than sustainability..... we will continue to swirl down that same toilet bowl as the Greeks..!
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:43 PM   #416
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I don't get it, what is the mentality that doesn't grasp the fact that a govt cannot spend more than it takes in, any more than an individual can.
This simple concept continues to confound me. It is so simple. We can not spend what we don't have. What is so hard to grasp about this? People are not going to be willing to do much of anything until we stop wasting so much and start getting everybody to have some skin in the game. Nothing is free and everything must be paid for. I listened to a politician the other night talking about why the estate tax should be 100% and the children of a farmer or businessman should receive nothing upon his death. The government should receive everything. Business or farm should be sold and all proceeds should go to the government,. This was a normal looking well spoken guy and talking this purely socialist talk. We are telling our daughter not to rely on SS or Medicare for their retirement planning.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:53 PM   #417
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The situation with our government is kind of like the kid who comes to his parents and says he has overspent his credit cards and now he's in trouble. The parents give a concerned look, talk about it, and then hand the kid another credit card. That's pretty much where we are today. Any changes are always supposed to be borne by the other guy and not me.

When I have a client who is in financial trouble the advice is fairly simple...cut expenses and increase revenue. Both of our political parties have made it clear that they really don't plan on doing either. Entitlements make a juicy target because they amount to 60% of the government spending. We have to stop the flow somewhere.

Do I want spending cuts and increased taxes? No, but I really don't see any other alternatives out there. If we are ever going to turn things around taxes will have to go up and spending will have to decrease. I laid out what I think would give the Social Security system a chance at survival. Included in there was making S corporation earning subject to SS tax. My business is an S corp so I would be hit with it. I still think it is a fairer way to solve the problem. Changing the age that someone can draw would also be a better solution, but it can't be changed immediately. All change would have to be gradual. It can be done, but it will take an effort by all the change it.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:04 PM   #418
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I love the remarks about tea parties - all along I though they were for little girls.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:12 PM   #419
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I love the remarks about tea parties - all along I though they were for little girls.
So did the 67 congressmen and 2 senators (so far) that got removed from office by them. They found out they were wrong too.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:11 PM   #420
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I love the remarks about tea parties - all along I though they were for little girls.
May I quote you ?

" if you cannot attack the issue then attack the individual. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - no one is entitled to their own facts."
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