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Old 05-19-2012, 08:25 PM   #99
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I remember when it was called SSI - social security INSURANCE. It's a safety net, not a retirement plan.

All you guys b!tc#ing about illegals, fraud, etc, it's hardly round-off error. Congress pays a lot of attention to fraud and mishandling of public funds because it gets them attention and votes - but the medicine is worse than the disease - their rules enacted to placate the public cost considerably more than the losses they were designed to prevent.

Walmart knows people steal - and they know how much they steal. They do a reasonable job of protecting the store and then raise prices a smidge to cover the rest.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:28 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by LadyFitz... View Post
Same answer. I didn't make the mess, why should I pay for the mistakes of the ones who screwed up the system? The only thing I will do is vote against any sorry politician that tries to cut any more of my benefits instead of correcting the original problem.
Absolutely nothing. Not one single penny.

As a long term uppper middle class wage earner, I have put away more than 10% of my income, voluntarily, for the past 25 years.

I've been REQUIRED to put 15% of my income into a system which will pay me about 20% of my "contributions" when I retire.

further, I have been "REQUIRED" to be taxed 7% of my payroll to support a "retirement system" being RAPED by my "elected representatives"

I really don't understand why they cannot simply allow those of us with the means to set aside for our own retirement the ability to opt out of thier welfare system.

sheeeet, let me keep the 15% from now on, and I will gladly forgive you the 15% of my salary I've put into your system over the last 35 years...
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:33 PM   #101
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I realize it's the law, the gracious comment was a bit of tounge in cheek. I'd would love to have had the option to set aside that amount in the market beginning in 1970 and assuming it was well managed should have a tidy nest egg at this point. Not sure I agree with the "millions" but I do understand the concept.

The guy's family does get to claim SS from his account so all is not lost. And so does his ex-wife(s).
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:39 PM   #102
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Yes I mean retiring at age 53 and planning to take full SS payments at age 67 which is my full SS age. I think you thought I wanted my SS at 53. I don't mean that at all. Besides my reduced (defined) union pension, a company 401k, traditional IRA, Roth IRA & and other savings, I have "earned" the right to enjoy the rest of my life, free to travel and RV on my time. I also have a few other money make things I do on the side.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:39 PM   #103
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Lucky you. If you aren't contributing, hows that compute?
I did contribute for 30 years, then quit working. Some quit at 65, some earlier.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:41 PM   #104
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Every single week...
I pay myself 786 dollars.

i pay me wife 522 dollars.

I pay my only remaining employee 1167 dollars.

And I send the federal government $790.36

And once a month, I send the state of Illinois $627.


My math seems challenged right now, but the tax burden on my payroll seems like a lot.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:49 PM   #105
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I got the popcorn goin', my feet are up, and I'm most definitely enjoyin' this one on a warm Saturday night.... No hittin' below the belt, but keep on swingin'....
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:50 PM   #106
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Sorry, but I don't think anybody should be able to retire at 53 and have society take care of them for probably longer than they worked...
Something we can agree on, but not related to SS. I don't care what a private/public company/union does in regards to pensions. If they want to let people retire after 30 years of service at age 53 then fine. They made their bed, let them sleep in it. Unless of course the company/union goes bankrupt then the feds step in to bail them out with our money.

I have a real problem with PUBLIC employee's and their unions being able to do that though.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:50 PM   #107
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Actually many receive far more than THEY put in. Unless you were self employed and paid both parts (the 15%) you will get back more than you paid in very quickly. The 7% company match is in itself government required welfare. So if you count just what YOU put in, the numbers are not so large.

I don't know about you but the last year(s) I worked I made good money but the first 10 years I made not so much. 7% of $6,600 in 1973 was chump change as in $472. Factor in a decent annual raise, the numbers are still not that large.

My current report from SSA says I'll get $2,100 a month if I wait till 66. Thats approx 24,000 a year and in no time I will have been paid much , much more than I paid in. If I start drawing at 62, then by the time I'm 66, I will have recovered more than I put in. And I haven't contributed in 12 years (58 years old).

There are issues with the system that need to be looked at.....
Tom
First you did not pay just 7%, you paid double that -14%, because your employer paid an additional 7% for you, money that you did not see.
Second, you say $472 (which actually was $944) was chump change. Maybe so, but you use the time value of money and compound interest, and you will be amazed at what the numbers will be in 30, 40 years. Start early, as your first job, and continue for your career, and you will have a large nest egg, if you did not have to pay it to the government system.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:54 PM   #108
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Something we can agree on, but not related to SS. I don't care what a private/public company/union does in regards to pensions. If they want to let people retire after 30 years of service at age 53 then fine. They made their bed, let them sleep in it. Unless of course the company/union goes bankrupt then the feds step in to bail them out with our money.

I have a real problem with PUBLIC employee's and their unions being able to do that though.
Tom

Brother, I am with YOU on this item! I agree totally. I could not care less what the private sector does, because I can do business with them or not, and I don't have to support them or pay for their mistakes.
However, our government, at ALL levels is a total different story. I, we, all taxpayers must pay for the follies and promises that polititions make to the government union and elected officials.
We, the taxpayers or society CANNOT afford to pay what they have been promised!!!
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:04 PM   #109
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Tom
First you did not pay just 7%, you paid double that -14%, because your employer paid an additional 7% for you, money that you did not see.
Second, you say $472 (which actually was $944) was chump change. Maybe so, but you use the time value of money and compound interest, and you will be amazed at what the numbers will be in 30, 40 years. Start early, as your first job, and continue for your career, and you will have a large nest egg, if you did not have to pay it to the government system.
I get the time/money thing. I'm living on money that was first invested in the 1920's and before, split though several generations, many market upticks and downturns. So I get that.

And I fully understand the company match. I just don't consider their match as money that I invested. Just a cost of doing business for them. I appreciate that it happens but never in my control, never shows up in any document, wage statement, etc.

I'd rather have the option of "Forced Savings". Take that same % and put it in a 401K/Ira whatever. However, there are many people who could work all their lives and at the end of the day would still not have a bucket to spit in regardless of the interest rate/market appreciation. They would still need family/society to help them.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:04 PM   #110
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There is just too many people quitting work young. Why should the majority have to work until they are 65 or 70 when all the Government workers are able to retire in their early 50's. My daughter is quitting with 30 years teaching, she is only 52 years old, she should be required to work as long as the rest of us do. My brother worked for the gov and he quit when he was 50. I also have a neighbor that is in his 40's and he is drawing full retirement from SS along with getting payment for his two sons because their mother died. This guy should be working. The whole system needs to be overhauled. (moderator edit)

I was an independent small business owner for all my working years so I have paid in a bunch to SS and it would make me mad as hell if all at once I lost my SS benefits.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:37 PM   #111
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I have a real problem with PUBLIC employee's and their unions being able to do that though.

More and more cities are going under due to public employee pension cost. The state of CA will not be far behind. The whole concept of defined benefit retirement plans is going away. It has been for a long time in the private sector and taxpayer revolt is going to do away with it in the public sector. Combined with early retirements, it is espcially hard of taxpayers not being able to retire themselves as they work to pay taxes to pay those who have retired at 55. This dog isn't going to hunt much longer. For those of us in small business, you also have to figure in the concept of capital risk. We could lose it all.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:38 PM   #112
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First off, I'm really not interested, and I don't think the moderators are, about pointing fingers at one politician or even all politicians. My question is based on there are sacrifices that must be made. Are we willing to make those sacrifices?
Yes I am ready to make sacrifices. The ones that immediately come to mind are to eliminate HHS, all welfare programs, all perks to politicians, etc. One cannot consider reducing SS benefits to those who are and have been paying into the program, that would not be a sacrifice it would be a crime. SS contributees (both individuals and employers) do so in good faith, why should they be penalized for a failing program that was plundered by politicians?
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