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Old 04-12-2011, 08:04 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Midniteoyl View Post
Re-Elect Nobody...

I second this motion!!!!
I was forced onto SS and Medicare several years ago because I became disabled.

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Old 04-12-2011, 09:12 PM   #58
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Thanks for your responces Jim, you make some good points and it sounds like you speak from experience and have knowledge about this. I respect the fact that you took a risk and built a successful business and I knew about the employer match but not about the match not getting reduced also. And I also knew the reduction was about playing politics so maybe I should have said if SS is in trouble, why are we letting the government play politics with it? And I still think there shouldn't be a limit on taxable income for SS, the fact that not all income is reported on a W2 just means to me that there has to be another way to get the tax.

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Old 04-12-2011, 09:22 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Easyrider View Post
the fact that not all income in reported on a W2 just means to me that there has to be another way to get the tax.
There is. It's called "self employment tax" My accountant fills out this big long worksheet which basically compares W2 income to "other income" including corporate dividends (the other main way to get money out of an owned company) along with rental income (if you own the building and your company rents it from you) and of course the famous capitol gains...

And then they add a couple grand onto my federal income tax bill.
But it still doesn't come close to what the fica/medicare withholding woulda been.

The accountants use a formula. "excepted practice" and all that. They get bulitens from their accountant groups about what sort of number relationships trigger audits. They holler at me if my W2's are too small...

I did the math last year. If I increased both my wife's and my own salery to max out on SS every year until we retire, we would give the feds an additional $192,000. And after retirement, out SS checks would go up $100 per month. If we lived to 95 years old, we would collect an additional $72,000.

I decided to keep doing it as I have been.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:26 PM   #60
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And I agree with everything you say Steve. SS was built as a TRUST FUND. It was supposed to save for us (well for our fathers...) and we were supposed to get more out than we ever put in.

But during the 60's, after financing that war so many of us took a part in, someone, Nixon I think, took a look at all those greenbacks pouring into this untouchable trust fund, and decided he could spend it better.

And so, SS was changed. No more trust fund. It takes in what it will push out, each and every year, paycheck to paycheck like so many American families. That's why it needs saving during every economic downturn.
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:15 PM   #61
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Social Security's budget is NOT part of the Federal budget. The ONLY connection was the forced loans of the excess collected funds to the United States.

My link shows how your money should still be there. It's simple math. People don't do the math because it's like a mortgage. It's the "I don't want to look syndrome". If you stop to think how much it's really costing you in the long run to own that home you might just stop yourself from signing that mortgage agreement.

Three years ago Ray Lucia made a statement on the radio about SS. He shouted that it is just a Ponzi scheme. That day I'll always remember where I was etc upon hearing him say it. I emailed him about it. I called him while he was on the air. He would not elaborate and never again said it over the radio. To this day, I believe he was part of the government's effort to steer people away from thinking SS was going to work and to invest your money in his buckets of money strategy. I think he was told to shut up. Why do I think he was government backed? Just look at the news. If he could steer a couple million of us away from expecting ANYTHING from SS, that would be less heat on the gov't. They are going to have a serious bunch of angry people to contend with. Do you know how many millions in the next 3 to 4 years will be expecting to be on the government payroll? I say payroll because it's basically the same thing. By the tens of millions. It's like adding a whole new defense payroll, in spades. If any math was done then you were lied to all along.

One other thing. What's the alternative? How many of your financial plans were disrupted by changes in the RULES? They make the RULES and when you figure out how to use the RULES to your best advantage they turned around and called them LOOPHOLES.

I call it the STACKED DECK method. Whoa! Did I just see something coming off the bottom of that deck?
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:47 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by mick View Post
If you cut out waste, AND raise taxes on E V E R Y O N E , WE CUD balance the budget and pay off our debt.

Who Pays Income Taxes and how much?

Tax Year 2008

Percentiles Ranked by AGI(ADJUSTED GROSS INC)
AGI Threshold on Percentiles
Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid
Top 1%
Top 5%
Top 10%
Top 25%
Top 50%
Bottom 50%

Where is the fair in that ?

A person making $33,000 a year pays 2.7% in taxes? And if they are married, they get another deduction off that, and with children , THEY GET CASH BACK!!!!

You want to raise taxes on the rich? What are the rich? In NY state, the rich are not rich if they make 300,000 per year, they are middle class and get tremendous tax breaks , especially if they have kids.

East coast residents must make more than 3 1/2 times poverty before they pay taxes and they get free health care for their children. In the south , it is poverty when they pay taxes.

One of the biggest problems in America, IMO, is that the average person DOES NOT KNOW THE TRUTH about taxes and exemptions.

Study the facts, then vote what best suits your needs. I wont help you with my vote, if you are in conflict with my interest.
Mick, no offense, but I think you misunderstood the table you reproduced. It doesn't mean that a person making $33k pays 2.7%; it means that the lower 50% of taxpayers (those under $33k) account for 2.7% of the taxes paid. Note that the other 50% pay 97.3% of the taxes paid.

Actually, that's probably worse than what you said ...
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Crabby Mike View Post
Mick, no offense, but I think you misunderstood the table you reproduced. It doesn't mean that a person making $33k pays 2.7%; it means that the lower 50% of taxpayers (those under $33k) account for 2.7% of the taxes paid. Note that the other 50% pay 97.3% of the taxes paid.

Actually, that's probably worse than what you said ...
Think that is bad, read this....


This is part of the reason this country is broke.

Here is the rest of the story

47% of households owe no tax - and their ranks are growing - Sep. 30, 2009
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:46 PM   #64
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Part of the problem may be due to the amount of people that get their paychecks from the government. In the 60's there was 2 manufacturing jobs for one government job, now there is 2 government jobs for every one manufacturing job in the U.S.
"The mark of success is spending an entire day on the bank of a river without feeling guilt" ~Anonymous
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:31 AM   #65
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They will take from us, Medicare etc; but do you see the Politicians cutting all the bennies they get? They have better Medical coverage than anyone....do you see them cutting that...........
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:46 AM   #66
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Very interesting discussion. I have to congratulate everyone for not flaming anyone who holds a contrary view. This is a very politically charged subject with no easy solution.
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:50 AM   #67
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"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
Story here
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:56 AM   #68
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Getting the topic back to the thread subject....

In the long-term, Social Security is in trouble. At some point in the future, SS will be running out of money for benefits. But, SS has no effect on the current budget problems. Just raising the retirement age to 70 or so would take care of most of the SS problems.

Medicare is the big problem now. We have all been paying into it while we were working. At age 65, we still pay about $95/mo each. In addition to that, there is the cost of supplemental insurance to cover what Medicare does not. As I understand it, Ryan's budget plan wants to do away with the current Medicare system and change it to a fixed payment and letting the retiree go find a health insurance policy. The biggest problem with this idea is that there is no limit what the insurance companies can charge. As you well know, health insurance premiums go up much faster than the inflation rate. It won't take too many years before the insurance premium is unaffordable to many seniors. It is kind of like a company doing away with a defined pension and replacing it with a 401K. It saves a lot of money for the company and shifts most of the burden to the employee. I can see that it would save a lot of money in the budget, but how long will it be before 'Grandma' is sitting in the ER because she can't afford health insurance.

Another way to reduce the cost of Medicare is to increase the monthly payments taken out of the SS check. There also has to be some discussion at what point very expensive pointless treatments are stopped near the end of life. We all die at some point. Does the govt really need to spend a million bucks on very expensive procedures/treatments to add a few weeks of vegetative state before death?
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:24 AM   #69
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I don't understand why they are not clamping down on the Hospitals/Doctors for excessive needless procedures and finding the ones that are defrauding the system.
Instead they just want to hand the whole thing off to insurance companies who are already making too much money on the American people.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:56 PM   #70
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First I want to thank everyone for the civil tone of the discussion. When I started the thread I didn't expect it to last this long without someone going bonkers. I have learned some things and hope to learn more. The problem I have is that we do have a contract with the government, we have paid our entire working lives, if they try to break the contract, I fear it will cause a major upheaval the likes of which haven't been seen since the civil war. There are too many of us that have given more than our money in the boomer generation, that will not sit quietly by as we are thrown under the wheels of the top 1%. It seems to me that it matters not what party you support, the marching orders come from the 1%, JMHO

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