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Old 12-15-2011, 10:39 AM   #127
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Brilliant!

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Amend A to always allow 911 calls.
'Hadn't thought of that. Good discussion on The Diane Rehm Show here about cell phones and driving today.

I mentioned us, our conversation, to her staff. Y'all have had some great thoughts, now are part of the national discussion. Who says we can't sway public policy? Besides, I'll go out on a limb and say that, next to the pros, RV operators are model drivers, examples for the general public to follow.

We're talking about this at the 75,000 member iRV2 forum of RV owners.

When it comes to highway operations, the public has little common sense and a breathtaking sense of entitlement. As an airline pilot, I don't launch into hysteria anytime a rule that promotes a higher level of safety is proposed; why should any driver be treated differently? After all, he/she and I are both entrusted with the lives of others, we both operate dangerous machinery in a PUBLIC domain. This whole business of individual liberty on public roads reflects an inherent belief in the inferiority and insigficance of the individual operator; we have to evolve beyond that stance. A licensed driver shoulders the burden of an immense responsibility, not unlike my own. Operating a car doesn't mean you are of little or no signficance to the traveling public, as these dreadful statistics so clearly demonstrate.
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:45 AM   #128
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If I were writing legislation to deal with cell phone use while driving, first draft would go something like this:

A. All cellular providers would be required to push out a programming update to all active cell phones that caused the phone to suspend the user interface (buttons, displays, ringers, notifications, etc.) if the phone was traveling faster than 10mph. (Since all modern cell phones have GPS capability as part of the e911 service, this should be a simple programming change.)

Yep, sure do not want auto passengers or taxi customers or train riders able to use a phone while the vehicle is in motion.


B. Make it a Class A Misdemeanor to possess a phone that does not include this functionality, and a Class C Felony to sell or program phones to circumvent requirement A.

Yep people with cell phones need to be in jail with all the other really bad guys like child molesters, murderers, and rapists.


C. Make cellular activity reports available to accident investigators for all parties involved, and require that they be checked as a standard part of accident investigations. (Not transcripts, just activity. Times, dates sent/received, if a call was in progress, etc.) If found to be a contributing factor, prosecute under B provision if applicable, and also suspend driving privileges. 90 days first offense, 1 year second offense, permanent third offense.

Darn that pesky Constitution with a Bill of Rights which prohibits searches without a probable cause warrant or another which guarantees the right against self incrimination. Those criminals using cell phones probably don't deserve constitutional rights.

D. Fund a voucher program to replace phones incompatible with A, similar to the digital converter box program for HDTV. (FCC requires at least 95% of all cell phones include GPS capability, so 5% buy back.)

Yes sir, another welfare voucher. Yes, indeed that is what is needed.

E. Monitor distracted driving accident rates to see if the law is having the desired effect, repeal if not.
Surely, you cannot be serious.
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:48 AM   #129
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They are enforcing cel phone while driving laws in California. I understand the fines are over a hundred dollars. That should be enough to make you think twice about driving with a phone to your ear or texting.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:26 PM   #130
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They last thing we need in this over regulated county is more laws, rules and regulations. Every law, good or bad, is a restriction on our liberty and the ability to think and do for ourselves. There are things that simply cannot be legislated. Good sense is one of them.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:32 PM   #131
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They are enforcing cel phone while driving laws in California...
Like heck they are! I frequently drive I-10 to CA 60 to I-215 to I-15 down to Escondido (the last time was late October through early November). The entire route I see just as many people holding cell phones to their ears (and, occasionally, texting) as I do in AZ. I stay in San Marcos, drive all over North County (north San Diego County) and see just as many people with cell phones to their ears as I did before CA passed the law.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:42 PM   #132
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They last thing we need in this over regulated county is more laws, rules and regulations. Every law, good or bad, is a restriction on our liberty and the ability to think and do for ourselves. There are things that simply cannot be legislated. Good sense is one of them.
What you said is very true but we have a right to expect a degree of safety when we go out on the road. Cell phone use/texting etc is as addictive as drinking and should be handled as such. A lot of people can't put the cell phone down any more than an alcoholic can refuse a drink and should be treated the same.
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:33 PM   #133
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What you said is very true but we have a right to expect a degree of safety when we go out on the road. Cell phone use/texting etc is as addictive as drinking and should be handled as such. A lot of people can't put the cell phone down any more than an alcoholic can refuse a drink and should be treated the same.
Being ticketed for texting should have the same consequences as a ticket for DUI, big fine and high risk insurance. Hit them in the wallet, often more effective than hitting them over the head.
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:55 PM   #134
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Thanks!

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...we have a right to expect a degree of safety when we go out on the road.
Unique to us Americans is that we consider driving an entitlement, the manner in which we use vehicles one of our personal freedoms. The only time a citizen in civilized society should be free to drive however he or she wishes is while doing so on private land. A govt that tries to regulate that has then, and only then, over-reached its authority.

In the future, autos will first have transponders and then later have speed set automatically. Drivers will still have their personal liberty 100% intact, because it is not our individual "right" to dictate the public safety expectations of people around us, as CD has thoughtfully articulated.


Texting, the personal side: My wife's employee buried her 17 yr old daughter after the girl died in a texting accident. The family she and her friend hit head-on, as well as the two dogs riding with the girls, all died. Just last week, I swerved when a young man abruptly veered into my lane, head-on. As I zipped past with 70 mph closure, it was plain to see his phone, held in front of his nose, being dialed or texted. Were it my wife and Havana coming home from the office instead, I might be asking about joining the solo RV'ers out there! Look at your spouse or child tonight, after they doze off, and imagine the EMT zipping that awful bag shut around him/her, ponder the fallacy of arguing against traffic laws as if we were discussing voting rights. And, yes, if I'm on the front side of the cockpit door this holiday season with your grandchildren in the cabin, rest assured I left my treasured personal freedoms at home, where they belong. Otherwise, I'd say take the train.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:22 PM   #135
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Yep, sure do not want auto passengers or taxi customers or train riders able to use a phone while the vehicle is in motion.


Given the choice, I'd rather not be able to use my cell phone in those places than ride with a taxi driver or train operator that was on his cell phone. Yep.

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Yep people with cell phones need to be in jail with all the other really bad guys like child molesters, murderers, and rapists.
Nothing in there says anything about jail. Hefty fines are the teeth. Judge gets to decide about jail.

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Darn that pesky Constitution with a Bill of Rights which prohibits searches without a probable cause warrant or another which guarantees the right against self incrimination. Those criminals using cell phones probably don't deserve constitutional rights.
Probable cause would be evident and required. Phone records are commonly used by investigators for other crimes, why not this?

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Yes sir, another welfare voucher. Yes, indeed that is what is needed.
If government is to get involved with this issue, there will be costs. Might as well do something that will fix the problem and get something for our money. Otherwise it's pointless to do anything.

Look, I don't propose this is what needs to be done, I said "If I were writing legislation to deal with cell phone use while driving, first draft would go something like this:". I don't think we need more laws either, but the truth is, our legislators are looking at the issue at the urging of the NTSB. If they're gonna make new laws, do something that will solve the issue.

The alternative is to do nothing, or waste time and money passing unenforceable cell phone prohibition legislation, which is a joke. The point of my post is: technologically, there is a way to solve the problem.

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Surely, you cannot be serious.
I *AM* serious, and stop calling me Shirley.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:11 PM   #136
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Quote:
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Given the choice, I'd rather not be able to use my cell phone in those places than ride with a taxi driver or train operator that was on his cell phone. Yep.
[/COLOR]


Nothing in there says anything about jail. Hefty fines are the teeth. Judge gets to decide about jail.



Probable cause would be evident and required. Phone records are commonly used by investigators for other crimes, why not this?



If government is to get involved with this issue, there will be costs. Might as well do something that will fix the problem and get something for our money. Otherwise it's pointless to do anything.

Look, I don't propose this is what needs to be done, I said "If I were writing legislation to deal with cell phone use while driving, first draft would go something like this:". I don't think we need more laws either, but the truth is, our legislators are looking at the issue at the urging of the NTSB. If they're gonna make new laws, do something that will solve the issue.

The alternative is to do nothing, or waste time and money passing unenforceable cell phone prohibition legislation, which is a joke. The point of my post is: technologically, there is a way to solve the problem.



I *AM* serious, and stop calling me Shirley.
That's actually why I suggested the approach using an FCC regulation change which shifts the expense onto the communications companies to comply and the government simply has to go after the telecommunications if they don't affect the changes to their liking.

In the end, the cellphone users are the ones that pay the burden for the implementation vs taxpayers as a whole.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:15 PM   #137
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We have D U I laws with fines,jail time,added insurance, licence revoked-etc. Now the person is a convicted driver. I know several that are still driving after the 7th plus conviction for the offenses committed. Rules and laws are passed for the general safety of the population. If a person refuses to quit being the offender there's no hope more regulations will solve the problem. I have a sigh stapled to a paint paddle--"HANG UP & DRIVE. I have also gotten the one finger wave.

""I *AM* serious, and stop calling me Shirley."""

Around here we'd refer to you as "Shourly"
Safe travels...
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:15 PM   #138
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Being ticketed for texting should have the same consequences as a ticket for DUI, big fine and high risk insurance. Hit them in the wallet, often more effective than hitting them over the head.
^^ This.
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:37 PM   #139
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So, because a cell phone might be used in a less than safe way they should be banned? If that logic were true we might want the government to dictate what is served in school lunches because some kids are fat, or because some terrorists might attack an airplane everyone who flies would have to waive their rights and allow themselves to be embarrassingly searched without cause before boarding, or we might want to fill the jails with drug addicts because of their dangerous behavior even though there is no hope of behavior change, or maybe we would kick a child out of school because he brought a pen knife there. The next thing you know you would want the NSA to be able to monitor all cell and land line phone calls in case bad things were discussed, and cameras would be everywhere to monitor citizen behavior. With that logic silly cities like New York and San Francisco might be tempted to make the sale of Happy Meals illegal because kids might be attracted to less healthy food. The next thing you will want is mandatory health insurance purchase. Oh wait, we already do all these things. Banning cell phones because some nanny thinks they are dangerous would make sense too.
You are a day late and a $$ short, sir.

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Old 12-15-2011, 10:54 PM   #140
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I was watching a news program today. The guest was being asked about this proposed law. He flatly stated that from a practical standpoint it will be unenforceable.
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