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Old 10-20-2011, 09:34 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by hondo122 View Post
Francesca, your repeatedly reposting the first post, does nothing to forward the thread, this is a discussion with various views, all someones opinion, you may not feel that they click with original post, but threads grow and twist as they move forward, they are after all opinions. So while Mick and my post may not tie directly to the original post, they do fit with the flow of thoughts and comments that have followed. I find it offensive that you have taken it upon yourself to declare members of topic. We have moderators that keep us within bounds. I hope you take no offense at my pointing this out.
I do take offense- and especially at your patronizing tone. It isn't your place to chide me or anyone else for objecting to the use that's being made of a thread that was clearly meant only to honor a dead man.
A lack of Moderator intervention in this thread cannot be taken as an indicator of site approval/disapproval. I think it presumptuous of you to make such a judgement. They rarely intervene unless someone makes a complaint, and I invite you to do so if you feel I'm out of line.

I'm a great admirer of Steve Jobs' accomplishments and consider myself blessed to live in a Country in which he had the opportunity to achieve them.

I think it grotesque that many who've responded to a very nice Original Posting in his honor have seized the opportunity to air their grievances against a system that they perceive to have failed them.

I further think it unbelievably rude to the original poster, who clearly meant only to note the passing of a Model of the kind of success for which The United States is almost universally admired.
Except here in this thread, of course.

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Old 10-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #170
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Folks,
We need to get back to the original topic!
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:10 PM   #171
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I do take offense- and especially at your patronizing tone. It isn't your place to chide me or anyone else for objecting to the use that's being made of a thread that was clearly meant only to honor a dead man.
A lack of Moderator intervention in this thread cannot be taken as an indicator of site approval/disapproval. I think it presumptuous of you to make such a judgement. They rarely intervene unless someone makes a complaint, and I invite you to do so if you feel I'm out of line.

I'm a great admirer of Steve Jobs' accomplishments and consider myself blessed to live in a Country in which he had the opportunity to achieve them.

I think it grotesque that many who've responded to a very nice Original Posting in his honor have seized the opportunity to air their grievances against a system that they perceive to have failed them.

I further think it unbelievably rude to the original poster, who clearly meant only to note the passing of a Model of the kind of success for which The United States is almost universally admired.
Except here in this thread, of course.

Francesca
The title of the post is The American Dream is far from Dead, now some posters have disputed the statement, but they are on topic, this is a discussion, folks take different views, you're saying that if the post strays from paying homage to Steve Jobs we're off topic, if that is indeed the case most of the posts are of topic. I did not attack you other than your opinion as to what constitutes being off topic. Take a few minutes and follow the flow of posts over the last 165, they are all trying to say what the American Dream is and whether it is still alive. Personally I think it's on life support due to the machinations of big business, maybe you agree or disagree but in the context of this thread, it is all ON TOPIC! Again I hope that you can look at the posts in the goodwill they are posted. Just because folks disagree on topics on a forum doesn't mean any are wrong, just that they view things from a different life experience.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:21 PM   #172
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Most of the people I know who have made well of their lives started out very poor. My family grew up from poor folk to being able to take care of ourselves and really well in all instances but mine. I made about one gamble too many and now I am on about $4500.00 in pension benefits. If my gamble had paid off I would still not be pulling my pension benefits until when it was mandatory.

I have a young USA friend who arrived here at 3 months of age (Boston area) when his parents fled Vietnam. He is currently working in the computer field and is doing very well for himself and his wife.

Others I know who are born into the North American Dream are like a homeless snake; No Pitt To Hiss In. The fault was all theirs because they opted to buy everything they thought they needed on credit, and when nip came to tuk, they have nothing left but the bills and they snivel and moan about what they don't have and how 'the Man' is screwing them.

My wife and I are doing OK but others in my family are doing very well for themselves and it was all achieved by hard work and thriftiness; not credit cards.

Steve Jobs' principals are alive and well in a lot of us.
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Old 10-21-2011, 12:11 AM   #173
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Most of the people I know who have made well of their lives started out very poor. My family grew up from poor folk to being able to take care of ourselves and really well in all instances but mine. I made about one gamble too many and now I am on about $4500.00 in pension benefits. If my gamble had paid off I would still not be pulling my pension benefits until when it was mandatory.

I have a young USA friend who arrived here at 3 months of age (Boston area) when his parents fled Vietnam. He is currently working in the computer field and is doing very well for himself and his wife.

Others I know who are born into the North American Dream are like a homeless snake; No Pitt To Hiss In. The fault was all theirs because they opted to buy everything they thought they needed on credit, and when nip came to tuk, they have nothing left but the bills and they snivel and moan about what they don't have and how 'the Man' is screwing them.

My wife and I are doing OK but others in my family are doing very well for themselves and it was all achieved by hard work and thriftiness; not credit cards.

Steve Jobs' principals are alive and well in a lot of us.
Since Francesca has chosen to advocate for your perceived intentions with the post. Could you please list the trait that Steve Jobs had that should mute all debate.
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Old 10-21-2011, 12:38 AM   #174
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October 20, 2011



RIGHT TO THE END: Steve Jobs Biography Reveals He Told Obama, ‘You’re Headed For A One-Term Presidency’.

Jobs, who was known for his prickly, stubborn personality, almost missed meeting President Obama in the fall of 2010 because he insisted that the president personally ask him for a meeting. Though his wife told him that Obama “was really psyched to meet with you,” Jobs insisted on the personal invitation, and the standoff lasted for five days. When he finally relented and they met at the Westin San Francisco Airport, Jobs was characteristically blunt. He seemed to have transformed from a liberal into a conservative.


“You’re headed for a one-term presidency,” he told Obama at the start of their meeting, insisting that the administration needed to be more business-friendly. As an example, Jobs described the ease with which companies can build factories in China compared to the United States, where “regulations and unnecessary costs” make it difficult for them.

Jobs also criticized America’s education system, saying it was “crippled by union work rules,” noted Isaacson. “Until the teachers’ unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform.” Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year.
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Old 10-21-2011, 12:45 AM   #175
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October 20, 2011



RIGHT TO THE END: Steve Jobs Biography Reveals He Told Obama, ‘You’re Headed For A One-Term Presidency’.

Jobs, who was known for his prickly, stubborn personality, almost missed meeting President Obama in the fall of 2010 because he insisted that the president personally ask him for a meeting. Though his wife told him that Obama “was really psyched to meet with you,” Jobs insisted on the personal invitation, and the standoff lasted for five days. When he finally relented and they met at the Westin San Francisco Airport, Jobs was characteristically blunt. He seemed to have transformed from a liberal into a conservative.


“You’re headed for a one-term presidency,” he told Obama at the start of their meeting, insisting that the administration needed to be more business-friendly. As an example, Jobs described the ease with which companies can build factories in China compared to the United States, where “regulations and unnecessary costs” make it difficult for them.

Jobs also criticized America’s education system, saying it was “crippled by union work rules,” noted Isaacson. “Until the teachers’ unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform.” Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year.
Looks like Stevo was as self absorbed as the rest of the ceo's
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:21 AM   #176
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I think the attachment exemplifies the fact that the American Dream is alive and well if we work at it hard enough.
Francesca,
If you look at the first post and a few posts after that ,you will see how my reply is in line with what is going on in the US .I perceived the original post as saying if you work hard and get up off your Butt and not wait for someone else to pay your way, you can achieve anything you want.

These misguided people protesting the way of life in this great country have no clue.
Who’d have thought that a crowd of people demanding the seizure of wealth from banks, corporations, and the wealthy might also have a few thieves? I’m shocked, shocked to find theft occurring in a group that has hijacked private property it refuses to leave. I can’t imagine that a crowd that demands free higher education and the forgiveness of tens of thousands in student debt would also think of someone’s Mac or an iPhone as equally as communal as a college education.

The best part of this story is that it sounds like the thieves might be creating a few proto-conservatives:
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:44 AM   #177
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Folks,
We need to get back to the original topic!



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Old 10-21-2011, 11:35 AM   #178
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Mick my original post was to say, if one got off their fat arse and worked it off instead of waiting for government handouts, one could get ahead. Look at most of your young multi millionaires, they are all go getters, people who defied the advice of others and pursued their dream. We could all emulate their tenacity and still get ahead.
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Old 10-21-2011, 12:33 PM   #180
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Mick my original post was to say, if one got off their fat arse and worked it off instead of waiting for government handouts, one could get ahead. Look at most of your young multi millionaires, they are all go getters, people who defied the advice of others and pursued their dream. We could all emulate their tenacity and still get ahead.

And Steve Jobs certainly proved that to be true.
Of course, he wasn't slowed down by the weight of a big ol' chip on his shoulder...
I'll bet he didn't even know how badly the odds were stacked against him!

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Old 10-21-2011, 04:13 PM   #181
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Not much to admire there unless you're an Apple shareholder
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #182
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Not much to admire there unless you're an Apple shareholder
It seems most slide down that slippery slope
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