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Old 10-09-2011, 02:46 PM   #29
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The crops rot in the field cause the unions wont let the "american worker" work in those awful, dangerous, unsafe conditions... were it NOT for the illegal aliens everyone bashes at the drop of a hat we would all starve or be paying 25.00/pound for tomatoes so that the unions could extract their blood money insurance and medical payments from the growers !
Come on tell us how you really feel about unions. Study history and find out who built the middle class. They are not all good, but without them we would still be living in company towns, buying at the company store, and drop dead at 55. You obviously have had a bad experience with unions, sorry for that, but without them we would all be living in shacks.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:48 PM   #30
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People talk like only illegals work in the fields... Not so. The farmers pay to have 'legals' work the fields.. These get work permits for 90 days, get bussed up, work, go home. Happens every year..
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:53 PM   #31
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Come on tell us how you really feel about unions. Study history and find out who built the middle class. They are not all good, but without them we would still be living in company towns, buying at the company store, and drop dead at 55. You obviously have had a bad experience with unions, sorry for that, but without them we would all be living in shacks.
True, they were good once.. But now most seem to actually drive companies away. Lets not mention the corruption Or the 'laws' that state only union workers are allowed to work municipal contracts.. Some of your biggest companies are union free.. Some of the biggest failures are not...
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:11 PM   #32
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The work ethic is alive and well in America, the problem is the work is in China, India, Mexico and on and on and on. This stuff about jobs that Americans are unwilling to do is a lie! Americans will do anything paid a fair wage, just ask the guy who pumps out your septic tank or the plumber that has to open a line filled with sewage. The problem is we've been sold this cheap Chinese junk and told that's what you need. What we need are good honest employers that don't skim all the fat of the gravy.
X2 on that.
I was told i would be fired about a month ago if i didn't work over time to tear down a gearbox on a machine at my work. I was told this 30min till the end of my shift.
What peeves me off about this is that the machine was 2 years old, and each bearing had its own grease fitting.
It WAS NEVER Greased in 2 years!!
And now all of a sudden the companys lack of planning is impacting my home time!!
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:15 PM   #33
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Most of this discussion seems to center on the amount of money paid to working men and women, or the people whose jobs are now in China or Mexico. Would someone explain CEO salaries to me? The CEO of Walmart nets $35 Million. Some health insurance company CEO's make $25 Million. I'm guessing most Americans today would feel successful if they made say $50,000 a year. Are you really saying that CEO's and executives are really worth 500 devoted employees making $50,000 a year?

The jobs moved to other countries because they will work for pennies and if they get hurt on the job because of unsafe working conditions, too bad! It also helps tax wise as all your income is out of the country so you don't have to pay any taxes even though your income comes from the US. These jobs will never come back to the US. Workers in this country need education to retool for new types of employment. Yet we are cutting education so that we can give even bigger tax breaks for people who make millions because they are the job creators! Can someone explain to me why when taxes were higher workers made more money and unemployment was low? Like for example during the Clinton years?
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:40 PM   #34
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I suppose the definition of "american dream" is not the same for everyone. I believe by my expectations that in my lifetime I have achieved the american dream. What Steve Jobs achieved in his lifetime, in my opinion, is far, far beyond anyones definition of the american dream.

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Old 10-09-2011, 03:41 PM   #35
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Good discussion folks but let's not bring the names of individual politicians or parties into play. That can make it a partisan discussion and invite political rebuttals.

Thanks for your help.

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Old 10-09-2011, 03:42 PM   #36
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I suppose the definition of "american dream" is not the same for everyone. I believe by my expectations that in my lifetime I have achieved the american dream. What Steve Jobs achieved in his lifetime, in my opinion, is far, far beyond anyones definition of the american dream.

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Agree totally
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:57 PM   #37
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True, they were good once.. But now most seem to actually drive companies away. Lets not mention the corruption Or the 'laws' that state only union workers are allowed to work municipal contracts.. Some of your biggest companies are union free.. Some of the biggest failures are not...
Take a look at the nameless bigbox retailer that has been sued many times for sexual discrimination, they win the lawsuits because they form a new corperation for each store, the women can;t prove a corporate liabiability across a stores. Big business takes advantage of working folks whenever possible because they answer to the stockholders, it's their fiduciary duty maximize profits. It's life nowadays in the USA
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:22 PM   #38
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LOL cutting education? Less than 1/3 of all college kids, NEVER get a degree. In America, there is more money owed on College loans , than on all credit cards together.

Yea, education is where its at................if your looking for the money that is.

Who do you think the stockholders are? The very same people on this forum that have 401ks, and retirement funds. Such as Police, firemen, city workers, state workers, fed workers, etc etc etc.

62% of all americans are stockholders.
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:18 PM   #39
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The "American Dream" is much more elusive today than at any time since I have been an adult. I started working full time in 1971, so that is the start of the time I am talking about.

Everyone who wants to actually know what the "American Dream (s)" is / are should spend a little time reading or watching about the lives and thoughts of the founders of our great country or the four on Mr Rushmore. When you know a bit about what Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and T. Roosevelt thought you will understand what our dream is.

Basically the issue today is that we have allowed the people in power that run things to fertilize and water the stupid tree for too long. Plus we have allowed them to take too much out of the pot. We need to elect people such as Jefferson who knew right from wrong and gave his life in the service of this country. He NEVER thought of himself as a professional politician. He tried to get out of politics many times. He served because he realized that God gave him talents and skills needed by the Republic and he felt it his duty to serve. Compare that to the lifelong professional politicians of today who know exactly zero about anything but getting a public paycheck. Jefferson was a farmer first and inventor and than a politician. Anyone who reads about those times and lives today must be astonished as to how frugal these people like Washington, Adams, and Jefferson were with the public purse. They also all believed in very limited government. Basically the government raised an army when needed, delivered mail, and kept the citizens from injuring each other. When there was a problem with the national debt in Jefferson's first term they actually drastically cut expenses to pay down the debt. Not kidding, they cut the army in half. They actually cut government expenditures by over 50%.

Jefferson hated public debt. The reason was that he believed public debt was taking money from the average man and putting it into the pockets of the well to do and connected. Think about that!

T Roosevelt is my absolute hero. A man born with a silver spoon in his mouth who was courageous to the ninth degree and who actually reformed the government and fixed many abuses. A man of intense honor and integrity who overcame his natural physical weaknesses by taking on challenges that turned him into one of the most physically and mentally strong Presidents we have ever had.

Besides getting rid of professional lifelong politicians and bringing back citizen politicians we need to put all levels of government on a diet. It is likely not an exaggeration that there are hundreds and thousands of government funded programs that could be closed today and would not be missed by anyone but the folks who work there.

As far as public companies overpaying their top people. That is absurdly the case. If you own a company then whatever you make is your business. But if you are a CEO in a public company it is crazy to pay anyone more than double the President. Crazy. Only American companies do it. Right now we have people in the streets protesting that very situation. Wait until baby boomers social security is cut. There will be millions of them in the street. Likely that needs to happen. I own stock in a lot of public companies. I actually do vote out the worst of the people that ask for my vote.

Do not accept that today's diminished opportunities are the norm and take back the power to run things. Throw out the pigs taking more than they should and if that happens then as Ronald Regan said, "I believer that America's best days are in front of us and not behind us".
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:39 PM   #40
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LOL sorry, if you started to work in 71, you were the american dream. The american dream that so many talk about and want , started around 47 and continued until LBJ began the "Great society" You are the results of that society.

Anyone who wants to work today (uh that means 10-14 hours a day 6 days a week) can achieve the dream. There are more opportunities today than ever in the history of america. Perhaps the problem is as simple as posted about the cubicles and puter work that younguns demand today. Along wit the 3-2-2 brick in a gated community and two cars.

Just once, I would like to know the PROFESSIONAL, ACKNOWLEDGED definition of the American Dream? Is it welfare, food stamps, unemployment pay , paid medical, before and after school food free, free baby sitting, etc, etc, etc.?

Or..........could it be the freedom to chase the american dream with no guarantees except that freedom ?
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:05 PM   #41
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The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States in which freedom includes a promise of the possibility of prosperity and success. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1] The idea of the American Dream is rooted in the United States Declaration of Independence which proclaims that "all men are created equal" and that they are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

American Dream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 10-09-2011, 08:49 PM   #42
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Now list the amendment where it promises all that the govt gives away?
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