The American Dream is Far From Dead

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by Midniteoyl

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States in which freedom includes a promise of the possibility of prosperity and success. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1] The idea of the American Dream is rooted in the United States Declaration of Independence which proclaims that "all men are created equal" and that they are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

American Dream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sorry but I must disagree, all men are not created equal. Some are created physically superior, some mentally superior some are given no such gifts. The meaning of the Constitution is we are equal under the law and in the eyes of God, the rich, the workers, the poor. We all know that is not true either, as we are equal to the extent of our ability to pay for this equality. So we are lying to ourselves by saying we are all EQUAL. We have to give up on this fantasy and realize some people will never succeed because they are unable, not unwilling. Hard work in and of itself does not ensure success. I've had some of the hardest working people you can imagine who have worked for me, but without the gift of intelligence, they worked till they died at hard labor never rising above that. While others with the gift of intelligence were successful with little effort on their part. So until we can accept that success is the luck of the draw for many of us, and that the unsuccessful are not just bums that are unwilling to work, we will stand a nation divided by social class, and as a nation we will be doomed to follow in the footsteps of ancient Rome and Greece, into oblivion. Not veryone can pull themselves up by the bootstraps, some have no bootstraps.

[melvonnar]

Originally Posted by hondo122

If you read my medical history you'll know I'll believe anything a Doctor can screw up. Bring it on, when you're done I'll tell tail of doctors, nurses and hospitals. But I'm still here and so are you so there are some folks medicine can't kill

I changed my mind; sorry but it just brings up to many bad memories.

Best part is when I got to retire early.

[Mekanic]

On a national news channel today there was a farmer crying "No one want to work in the fields" .....oh boo hoo. I have news for you Mr Farmer. No one wants to work in your fields AT YOUR CURRENT LOW RATE OF PAY. it really a quite simple fix, pay more and workers will show up.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by Mekanic

On a national news channel today there was a farmer crying "No one want to work in the fields" .....oh boo hoo. I have news for you Mr Farmer. No one wants to work in your fields AT YOUR CURRENT LOW RATE OF PAY. it really a quite simple fix, pay more and workers will show up.

Ummmm.....did you see post #12? Someone without a job can afford to turn his/her nose up at $10.50/hour for basically unskilled labor?? If so, then there's something RADICALLY wrong with the system. I was taught that a man should do whatever it takes (legally, of course) to support his family, including cleaning toilets if that's all that is available, but then again, my parents lived through the Great Depression.

Rusty

[Mekanic]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

Ummmm.....did you see post #12? Someone without a job can afford to turn his/her nose up at $10.50/hour for basically unskilled labor?? If so, then there's something RADICALLY wrong with the system. I was taught that a man should do whatever it takes (legally, of course) to support his family, including cleaning toilets if that's all that is available, but then again, my parents lived through the Great Depression.

Rusty

What I saw was a farmer in Alabama. I seroiusly doubt he was paying $10.50 per/hour. I'd think If he did he'd be turning people away.
And 10.50 per/hour doesn't buy much in some parts of Colorado.
Two vastly different cost of living in those 2 areas.

[Possum]

A farmer in the Saanich Peninsula of Vancouver Island brought in Atco Trailer bunk houses and offered free food and lodging to anyone who would come to his farm to pick daffodils and vegetables and to work at transplanting year round.

He was underwhelmed at the great response of one employee. He also offered $10.00 an hour on top of that. Now you would think that the $1600.00 a month and free room and board would attract lots of the homeless that he targeted in his brochure handout in downtown Victoria BC wouldn't you? The reality is we have a huge number of people who thrive on being homeless and accepting the handouts of the tourists.

My parents instilled a work ethic in my siblings and myself and insisted that we get off our butts to do something with our lives. As an aside the news did a series of interviews with the beggars along the inner harbour area of Victoria and one (face disguised) admitted that it was easier to beg 5 to 7 hundred dollars a week out of the tourists on top of his $500.00 monthly government cheque than to get off his butt and work. In Canada the welfare recipients get free healthcare, free dental, free optometrist visits and eyeglasses etc etc and we wonder why they won't work?

[RovinOn]

Ummmm.....did you see post #12? Someone without a job can afford to turn his/her nose up at $10.50/hour for basically unskilled labor?? If so, then there's something RADICALLY wrong with the system. I was taught that a man should do whatever it takes (legally, of course) to support his family, including cleaning toilets if that's all that is available, but then again, my parents lived through the Great Depression.

.

Probably making more on unemployment, welfare, food stamps and whatever.
Too many people believe that they are owed or entitled and won't look for work, and I know there are those that "DO" want the work.
There is work out there I see it in my local classifieds every day.
But of course due to the downturn in the economy the powers to be have the advantage and don't want to pay decent wages or benefits, why, because what they won't spen on a decent employee is more in their pocket, why it makes the bottom line look better, bigger bonus for them!
And hey folks lets keep impoting all that wonderful foreign stuff, lets put some more of our folks out of wiork, and don't even start on me about Unions being the cause either because that is a very minute cause to the problem.
It's the old adage of the haves wanting it all and taking from the have nots! It will never change.
Oh I forgot to add...oh never mind don't get me really started!

[Midniteoyl]

Originally Posted by Mekanic

On a national news channel today there was a farmer crying "No one want to work in the fields" .....oh boo hoo. I have news for you Mr Farmer. No one wants to work in your fields AT YOUR CURRENT LOW RATE OF PAY. it really a quite simple fix, pay more and workers will show up.

And then we cry when food and fuel and goods rise in price..

[DrScott]

There are jobs. From the discussion it seems that we have all, at times, done what ever job was needed to make it go. I know I have.

I am a dentist, not a rich dentist, just a dentist. I do OK. I and my DW worked through dental school. Not an easy balance. Just being at school is full-time. Then studies. and work. I rented videotapes out, sold stuf at a variety of stores. My wife worked at bookstores and department stores. We were thrilled to have a hotdog to put in the mac and cheese. We did not turn on the heat. We were LUCKY to have a landlord that allowed us to pay 15% of our net as rent. What ever that came out to. Due to our hard work and effort we graduated form undergrad and my grad school with a combined 13K in debt. We know what work is.

I started an office. It did OK. I'm a way better dentist than businessman. 10 years later, after having to move the office and the business loans associated (the building was being torn down and the SBA required a lien on my house after I committed all our savings to the project), my wife was diagnosed with uterine cancer. We had insurance which helped with the medical bills. Nothing helps with taking the kids to school, picking them up, making dinner, not to mention the mental distraction of being told the love of your life is dying. The distraction took its toll on the office. I had unscrupulous employees embezzle funds since, well, they thought I could afford it. DW survived. All we had left was ourselves, the kiddos, a faltering business and a house. Sold both expendable items and moved. There's more, this is a summary.......

Now I work 6 days a week for someone else to get some semblance of recovery. I leave at 0630 and get home at 1900. The kids are doing great. So is DW. I have NO benefits package or retirement/pension plan other than what we provide for ourselves. We have had help. Lots of loving help from God and from people who saw how hard we work. We have made choices, like getting an RV to have family vacations, that some would say are foolish. Oh well.

I have NO patience for anyone who whines about not getting enough from the gov't. There are people who we as a society have agreed to help--disabled for one. I'm not talking about them. There are a lot of folks who could work but don't. Our gov't discourages it. Just like they discourage saving. IMO we each have something to contribute to the world through our abilities. Some contributions are not glamorous--like emptying the trash at the mall--but all are necessary and important. What is important is learning to work hard, take care of yourself and your family, and try to find the best others. Noone else is going to do it for you. Nor should they be obligated to.

The American Dream is still there. Too many people have left out the part about working for it, they think they are entitled to a certain standard of living just for being. They see these so-called reality shows and think that that life is normal. Not everyone is Steve or Bill or Warren or Kim or.... nor should they be. We are each blessed with a skillset. Society has put certain values to certain skills. Don't like it? Find how you can use yours to help others (and get paid for it) and I bet you will achieve more here than in any other nation on earth. Ya just gotta get over yourself, be willing to work, and accept it won't be glamorous all the time.

[Automobilist]

Originally Posted by Mekanic

X2 on that.
I was told i would be fired about a month ago if i didn't work over time to tear down a gearbox on a machine at my work. I was told this 30min till the end of my shift.
What peeves me off about this is that the machine was 2 years old, and each bearing had its own grease fitting.
It WAS NEVER Greased in 2 years!!
And now all of a sudden the companys lack of planning is impacting my home time!!

Then go start your own company.
Work for me, and we work until the job's done. As the owner, I start before anyone else, and I leave last. Classic problem; employees complaining that everyone else is an idiot, and screwing their job up. Not in my companies. We work hard, we finish the job regardless, and we pay high. Our top employee made $745k last year. Why? He was able to close a deal that was huge. Saw a gap, got us in, and made it happen. He worked his butt off and pulled off a huge deal. He flew to Houston and stayed in a motel for 15 weeks, worked seven days a week at the customer's site in a hot, dirty factory ensuring we performed our part well. He made the company a heck of a lot of money, so we paid him a lot.

Employees have to understand they must produce more than they cost. You whine about having to stay late to finish a job so the machine can get back to work? Doesn't fly with me. If that means a piece of equipment won't be producing because you found it inconvenient, guess who's on our list of non-team players?

The American Dream is alive and well. IF, you've got the brains to see opportunity and the guts to act on it.

[DrScott]

Mekanic, Seems to me that the person(s) responsible for maintaining that equipment should stay and fix it. Or at least sit there bored while you do it. However, part of being on a team is sucking it up and doing it, even if it is not your job/fault/etc.

Do you only do your personal laundry/dishes/etc at home or do you help clean up after others, even though you did not make it dirty??

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by Possum

A farmer in the Saanich Peninsula of Vancouver Island brought in Atco Trailer bunk houses and offered free food and lodging to anyone who would come to his farm to pick daffodils and vegetables and to work at transplanting year round.

He was underwhelmed at the great response of one employee. He also offered $10.00 an hour on top of that. Now you would think that the $1600.00 a month and free room and board would attract lots of the homeless that he targeted in his brochure handout in downtown Victoria BC wouldn't you? The reality is we have a huge number of people who thrive on being homeless and accepting the handouts of the tourists.

My parents instilled a work ethic in my siblings and myself and insisted that we get off our butts to do something with our lives. As an aside the news did a series of interviews with the beggars along the inner harbour area of Victoria and one (face disguised) admitted that it was easier to beg 5 to 7 hundred dollars a week out of the tourists on top of his $500.00 monthly government cheque than to get off his butt and work. In Canada the welfare recipients get free healthcare, free dental, free optometrist visits and eyeglasses etc etc and we wonder why they won't work?

Possum without sounding rude what does what is happening on a farm in Alberta have to do with the "AMERICAN DREAM", not north america, other wise we would have to include Mexico. I guess it sounds rude and I am sorry, but it is what it is.

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by Mekanic

X2 on that.
I was told i would be fired about a month ago if i didn't work over time to tear down a gearbox on a machine at my work. I was told this 30min till the end of my shift.
What peeves me off about this is that the machine was 2 years old, and each bearing had its own grease fitting.
It WAS NEVER Greased in 2 years!!
And now all of a sudden the companys lack of planning is impacting my home time!!

I doubt the discussion started with if you don't stay you're fired. The machine needed to be fixed you were the obvious candidate, unless you had a funeral to go to that night I would have expected you to say sure I'll fix it, I need it to do my job tomorrow

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by Automobilist

Then go start your own company.
Work for me, and we work until the job's done. As the owner, I start before anyone else, and I leave last. Classic problem; employees complaining that everyone else is an idiot, and screwing their job up. Not in my companies. We work hard, we finish the job regardless, and we pay high. Our top employee made $745k last year. Why? He was able to close a deal that was huge. Saw a gap, got us in, and made it happen. He worked his butt off and pulled off a huge deal. He flew to Houston and stayed in a motel for 15 weeks, worked seven days a week at the customer's site in a hot, dirty factory ensuring we performed our part well. He made the company a heck of a lot of money, so we paid him a lot.

Employees have to understand they must produce more than they cost. You whine about having to stay late to finish a job so the machine can get back to work? Doesn't fly with me. If that means a piece of equipment won't be producing because you found it inconvenient, guess who's on our list of non-team players?

The American Dream is alive and well. IF, you've got the brains to see opportunity and the guts to act on it.

You hiring?