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Old 10-10-2011, 04:21 PM   #57
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To follow up on Automobilist post, I've run major construction projects, when I was doing the renovation of Ceasars Casino in Atlantic City it was a $125M project. I commuted 60 miles each way, for a year I never saw my house in daylight, left before dawn got home after sundown. Missed an entire year of my youngest sons lives. Do I regret it, sometimes but it was a great paying job that looked great on my resume. There were days I slept in a room at the casino for 3 or 4 hours and went back to work. The casino was in operation during the entire project. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you commit to a job you should feel honor bound to see it through. Interfering with your home time is not an excuse never was!
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:54 PM   #58
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Numbers?

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Originally Posted by Midniteoyl View Post
And then we cry when food and fuel and goods rise in price..
I'll look at this thread as an economics discussion, apolitical.

Farmers pay $7.50 and up in Alabama, with $10.50 being the median rate.

Then, some collect various fees for living expenses.

I wonder if it's the latter that causes the problem: if you hire Americans who don't want to live on-site, does that essentially increase your costs, as a farmer?

Case in point: I just passed a farm (yes, this is written on the fly) in West Texas that seemed to feature a vintage Airstream rally, atop a hill.

Then, it dawned that the enterprising farmer had bought up a bunch of old Airstream TTs and arrayed them in a circle... You guess the rest.

Let's say the farmer pays his folks $9/hr and charges $100 per week rent. A respectable farm wage, and rent that is a steal for the worker.

Instead of forking out $1,440 a month for each worker, he can essentially get labor for $1,040 per month, or the equivalent of paying $6.50 an hour. Suddenly the $400 of wage relief goes away, eg he hires locals for the same rate.

In this case, he'd have to pay 35% more for "non-residential" help. Worse, if Americans want even a modest premium for the tough conditions.

I wonder...
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:04 PM   #59
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Hondo; it was just proving that there is an "entitled to" thought process in place in our continent.

Last time I looked though, Canada was a part of America; North America does include us.



One last point, Vancouver Island is in BC way over to the left coast of Canada.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:05 PM   #60
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If you resent what he is doing, do it better or cheaper, see how that works out for ya.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:13 PM   #61
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Classic problem; employees complaining that everyone else is an idiot, and screwing their job up.
Darn right! And someone here just typified it.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:24 PM   #62
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You hiring?



Sure. You identify, bring in and develop a big customer, we'll pay you exceedingly well.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:43 PM   #63
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Drifting off topic, but this reminds me of the two custom homes we've built for our family.

The architect thought the city planners were idiots because they made him rework some things.
The grader thought the architect was an idiot because of how he wanted the lot graded.
The foundation contractor thought the grader was an idiot because of how he compacted the dirt.
The framer thought the foundation guy was an idiot because of how he laid out the seismic tie-ins.
The electrician thought the architect was an idiot because of the lighting layout.
The plumber thought the concrete guy was an idiot because of blocking lines.
The insulation installers thought I was an idiot because I specified way too much insulation.
The drywallers thought the framers were idiots because the walls weren't square.
The tapers thought the drywall hangers were idiots because they didn't match up joints well.
The plasterers thought the tapers were idiots because they didn't smooth the walls enough.
The cabinet makers thought the framers were idiots because they didn't prep correctly for the cabinets.
The painters thought the plasterers were idiots because they didn't properly texture the walls.
The stucco contractor thought the framers were idiots because they didn't do the exterior details just right.
The finish carpenters thought the drywallers were idiots because they didn't do the corners square.
The appliance installers thought the cabinet makers were idiots because the oven didn't fit.
The stone installers thought the cabinet makers were idiots because it made their job harder.
The carpet installers thought the finish carpenters were idiots because they didn't cut the doors enough.
The roofer was totally cool.
The pool contractor thought the flatwork contractor was an idiot because he didn't like the concrete finish used.
The solar contractor thought the roofer was an idiot because he used real clay tiles which break easily.
The fencing contractor thought we were idiots because we have big dogs, chickens, rabbits that all need to be contained.
The building inspector thought we were idiots because we built an eight car garage and no one needs that many cars...

Our banker loves us though.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:17 PM   #64
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The roofer was totally cool.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:46 PM   #65
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In a nut shell. My husband is skirting in a 22' 1999 5th wheel to winter it out in N. Dakota along with a whole trailer park of others. He has an MBA from the U of Iowa. 20 years in manufacturing in Lean Processing. I watched him loose his job on a Friday, have an angiogram the next Monday, open hear surgery the next day. I had him home by Friday at noon and I went back to work on Monday. We have been through two more job loses but have survived this long with the blessing of resources from his previous employeer and our tenacity to not live beyond our means. We have put many things on hold to live. But we try to live while doing so. Everything we have is paid for except our 125 year old house that is far from being refurbished but I live in the greatest part of our state and the greatest part of the town I live. My husband had to dye his hair to get a job 800 miles and 10 hours away from our home and all he wants to is go home.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:53 PM   #66
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Freedom isn't freedom if you are not free to starve to death. Sounds cruel, but its true. Also quite liberating, once you embrace it.

Had a union job in middle '70's. Loved the job, hated the union. Self serving, hostage taking liars ran the union, fighting with management all the time. They loved fights more than they loved us making a paycheck. Unions will continue to decline in America till they take ownership of productivity and safety, and ally with management to make the company competitive. As long as its a contest against the owner and a struggle for power, the owner will find ways to limit union opportunity. Why this simple alliance is lost on unions has puzzled me for decades. Its stupid, but it is what it is. The result is history, look at their decline. For those who buy the union line of garbage that unions made the middle class in the U.S., you need to read history. Even a light skimming of history reveals the middle class was built (and is built today) on educated individuals seeking opportunity. It started w/the apprenticeship system and lending libraries in New England, and blossomed into the so called "mercantile" class. I learned that in parochial school; perhaps public schools have a different text, singing a different song?

I recently finished a job working for a younger entrepreneur. Great guy, could outwork me 2 or 3 to one all day, every day. He needed my expertise. Had my best year ever. America is a great country. I was of use to him for only one reason- my life long love of learning useful stuff. The guy I worked for is in a highly competitive industry, and is kicking the pants off everybody else in the niche. He isn't inordinately smart, just motivated. He's making a killing, and paying 50% of it to the Fed. And employing 25 people in a business that would not exist without him.

One of the most successful guys I've ever met is a plumber. Talking to him is painful- can't string more than 5 words together without butchering the English language. I think he has 12 trucks going constantly. Utterly ignorant in every book learning way, just motivated.

The key to the American Dream is motivation and avoiding debt, and it has always been. Think about our first immigrants, getting off rickety boats on the Atlantic seaboard. They had a trunk of clothes, some tools, maybe a book on wilderness survival, making a forge, things like that. Then they watched the last vestige of European civilization, such as it was, sail away. Turning around they faced the wilderness. They would hack out their livelihood or die of starvation, disease, hostile encounters with indigenous people or animals. Countless ways to die, only one to live- get busy, work like hell, and keep on working. These were people unwaveringly determined to live free or die trying. And if they arrived debt free, their time and productivity was their own, and their prosperity likewise. Anybody who says we have it tougher than those pilgrims is on glue. The history of these people over the ensuing couple centuries is the American Dream. Live free or die trying.

Fast forward to 2011. I have a family member who is unemployed. She has been unemployed about half of the last 30 years. She will make her current UI benefit come out to its last dime, or pretty close. Like so many of the unemployed, she will get a job just as her last check is due. 2/3 of unemployed find a job within 60 days of their benefits running out. Funny how simple motivation takes over when sponge benefits dry up. I qualify for UI. A business owner buddy of mine asked how much I'm getting. I told him I haven't applied; told him I'm doing my best to finish my shift without standing in front of anybody for handouts. I'm not rich, but I have simple tastes and hope to get by on what assets I've accumulated; might make it, might die trying. Buddy said, "Everybody else is doing it." I still believe in the American Dream. Live free or die trying.

Today in America, we face obstacles. We have debt of two types. First, we owe a great deal of money to a mix of foreigners and citizens. That staggering burden falls on our kids & grandkids, for which they get absolutely nothing. Their benefits will have to be paid by future work. This is a real problem, and growing. We can't bleed more tax out of folks who hire $1,000/hr tax consultants. That isn't a political statement, I'm stating simple fact. When a rich guy has better tax advice than the IRS and Congress, that is the result. And anybody who can't grasp that reality is making a political statement rather than dealing with facts. That's why "taxing the rich" is a wasted effort (not to mention a fraudulent position), long before you take into account that those are the folks w/the jobs & money to hire more if the risks look justified.

Second, we have enormous overhead in the way of endless bureaucracies to feed. These built in liabilities work the same as debt. Gotta pay the vigorish. I'm working on a job in a northern CA county, permit application fee was $1,900. County called & wanted $2,000 more to "finish the review." That was 30 days ago. They just called again, and want another $2,000. I'll bet they want a fourth dip in another month. And in the end, after burning 6 months, the actual in-place work will be no different than if the contractor had simply gone to work and done the job. Zero net benefit, just a bunch of do-nothing functionaries fed, their mortgage payments made, benefits accrued, etc. Zero output, nothing gained, time lost, opportunity lost, just bums feeding off the system, no better than my female relative making her UI come out even. Freedom? Pretty much the opposite. You owe the master (and I just mentioned one agency here, at least 20 agencies require their pound of flesh if you want permits in CA, some local, some state, some Fed) months of delay & paperwork and large gambled away sums, long before you can do any useful work.

This two sided debt burden is the only thing truly different today, limiting opportunity. Personal debt in many cases compounds drag on personal progress. Debt is stupid. Personal debt is personally stupid. Municipal debt is municipally stupid, state debt..., well the rest is obvious. The number of sponges feeding off working people is the only thing different today, holding America back. We have plenty of opportunity in America. We also have a sponge epidemic. Might be something to an email I got likening the debt ceiling to a backed up sewer: You come home & sewage is backed up all the way to your ceiling. Make a choice- either raise the ceiling so you can more easily swim in it, or get busy & pump out the cr@p.

Now, where'd I put that macerator I bought from RV Upgrades?
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:00 PM   #67
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sadiebug,

I admire yours, and your husbands tenacity! Sounds like you have the right outlook on things during these trying times the country is going thru. All the best to you and yours.

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Old 10-10-2011, 08:01 PM   #68
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there is a post which is unbelievably cruel in nature. I would hope it is deleted as replying is to much for my BP
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:37 PM   #69
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Just once, I would like to know the PROFESSIONAL, ACKNOWLEDGED definition of the American Dream? Is it welfare, food stamps, unemployment pay , paid medical, before and after school food free, free baby sitting, etc, etc, etc.?

Or..........could it be the freedom to chase the american dream with no guarantees except that freedom ?
I think the "American Dream" is the freedom to seek your own success, and the ability to define for yourself what "success" means.

One of the most successful, happy people I ever met was an old guy that lived in a old school bus he converted into a camper. He made little necklaces and trinkets from whatever he could find, and sold them on the street of the little college town I grew up in. People loved him, and would bring him things he needed; a sandwich, and extra blanket when it was cold, stuff like that... and that was all he wanted. He was a part of the community there. He would tell you that he was living the American Dream.
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:59 PM   #70
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In a nut shell. My husband is skirting in a 22' 1999 5th wheel to winter it out in N. Dakota along with a whole trailer park of others. He has an MBA from the U of Iowa. 20 years in manufacturing in Lean Processing. I watched him loose his job on a Friday, have an angiogram the next Monday, open hear surgery the next day. I had him home by Friday at noon and I went back to work on Monday. We have been through two more job loses but have survived this long with the blessing of resources from his previous employeer and our tenacity to not live beyond our means. We have put many things on hold to live. But we try to live while doing so. Everything we have is paid for except our 125 year old house that is far from being refurbished but I live in the greatest part of our state and the greatest part of the town I live. My husband had to dye his hair to get a job 800 miles and 10 hours away from our home and all he wants to is go home.
Bless both of you. I admire your spirit and attitude.

Here's hoping that things take a more positive turn for you soon.

Rick
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