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Old 02-27-2013, 02:50 PM   #183
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I feel there may be some risks associated with vaccinations too. So for me the flu isn't worth the risk. I feel we all should appreciate the right to make that choice. Hence lies the rub. Still a matter of personal choice.
There are certainly risks associated with vaccinations, there is no doubt about that.
Still a matter of personal choice for most of us, but for those who's employers force it upon them in order to keep their jobs.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:59 PM   #184
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My employer (a Fortune 500 corporation not associated with the healthcare industry) provides flu shots on premises and encourages employees to get them in the belief that sick time will be minimized and there will be less of a chance for an office epidemic, but they certainly are not mandatory.

Rusty
Which leaves individuals with the choice.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:05 PM   #185
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And I know people who have refused those vaccintions on behalf of their children, who have never come in contact with the polio.
From WHO:
Global caseload

Polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated 350 000 cases in more than 125 endemic countries then, to 650 reported cases in 2011. In 2012, only parts of three countries in the world remain endemic for the disease–the smallest geographic area in history–and case numbers of wild poliovirus type 3 are down to lowest-ever levels.

Those small parts are in these three countries: Nigeria Pakistan and Afghanistan.
There appear to be periodic outbreaks among the unvaccinated Amish (primarily) communities. HERE is a story from their own sources.

Surely you're not saying that the administration of the Salk and Sabin vaccines in the mid-20th century was a mistake??!! Why do you think polio has been largely eradicated?

Rusty
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #186
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But as I get older and where the flu could kill me I may take it. Also because I might not have as long to see what the long term effects will be. For now I'll pass
JFYI:

Dr. Joe Bresee, a flu expert with the CDC, said older adults need to know that if they got a flu shot and they develop flu-like illness, they may have influenza and should see a doctor to determine if they should take antiviral drugs.

"We wanted to make sure that people knew that especially if you're elderly to know that because we still want to communicate the fact that if you do get sick, get antivirals. And don't assume just because you got the vaccine, that that flu-like illness you've got can't be flu," said Bresee, who heads the CDC flu division's epidemiology team.


Vaccine effectiveness in elderly 'going to be quite low'
As well, it doesn't account for people who become so sick they go directly to hospital, which would not be uncommon in elderly people with influenza.

The findings are an interim estimate, based on data gathered during the middle of the flu season. The researchers doing this work are continuing to gather data and will run a final analysis at the end of the season.

The numbers may change slightly in the final analysis; in this run-through, the overall vaccine effectiveness figure dropped to 56 per cent from 62 per cent in an analysis conducted in January.

But Bresee suggested that the current figures are likely a pretty accurate reflection of the vaccine's performance in older adults.

"The nine [per cent] is going to change a little bit one way or the other," he said in an interview from Atlanta.

"But the nine's not going to become a 50, definitely, as we add data. I think we're confident that the effectiveness against that A strain in the elderly is going to be quite low."

Even in younger adults and children, the study suggests this year's vaccine offered modest protection. Bresee described it as "moderate" and said it's a word people in the flu world are starting to realize seems to apply to flu vaccine.

Even in young adults the group which typically mounts the best immune response to flu vaccine the performance of this year's vaccine was not stellar.

In people aged 17 to 49, it cut the risk of medically attended flu by 52 per cent overall. But for the H3N2 component, the protection was only 46 per cent in this age group.

Dr. Danuta Skowronski, a flu expert with the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control, said the findings are consistent with Canadian and European vaccine effectiveness estimates released in recent weeks.

For Canada the H3N2 effectiveness rate was 45 per cent, she noted, while European investigators pegged the effectiveness against that component at 42 per cent.


There is profit in pharmaceuticals and vaccinations. There is more profit to be made from anti-viral pharma drugs.

Why flu vaccines may work differently in elderly - Windsor - CBC News
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:09 PM   #187
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Dr. Simone explains that there are “more than 200 viruses that cause influenza and influenza-like illness,” yet, “at best, flu vaccines might be effective against only influenza A and B, which represent about 10% of all circulating viruses that cause the flu like syndrome.” Dr. Simone explained that the flu vaccine generally does not prevent the flu in babies, in adults, or in the elderly. He relies on data compiled from the Cochrane Collaboration and the Lancet Infectious Diseases journal. He explains that the flu vaccine is generally of little or no efficacy in the populations public health authorities most urgently demand be vaccinated:

“Not in Babies: 51 studies involving 294,000 children aged 6 -24 months found there was ‘no evidence that injecting [them] with a flu shot was any more effective than placebo.’ In children older than 2 years, it was only effective 33% of the time in preventing the flu. [Cochrane Database of Systemic Reviews. 2 (2008)].
Not in Adults: 48 reports including 66,000 adults: ‘Vaccination only reduced the risk of influenza infection by 6% and reduced the number of missed worked days by less than one day (0.16).’ Cochrane 1. 2006.
Not in the Elderly: 5707 articles screened, 64 studies used in 98 flu season: ‘Evidence for protection is lacking.’ Lancet and Cochrane.” - See more at: http://www.newswithviews.com/Emord/j....BFii5axa.dpuf

The next question that logically arises is whether the flu vaccine is dangerous. Dr. Simone explains that indeed in specific cases flu vaccines have caused injury, including “serious harms such as narcolepsy and febrile convulsions, and even a neurologic disease called Guillain Barre.” The public health authorities do not spend much time or effort informing Americans of those cases. The incidence of harm does not dissuade public health authorities from mounting year after year an aggressive campaign to induce more and more Americans to be vaccinated. They do that aware that as more of us become vaccinated, chances are the numbers of people suffering flu vaccine related injuries will increase.

Dr. Simone reveals that far from simply failing to inform, public health authorities join with others to manipulate the evidence. He states that “the Corchrane reviews show that reliable evidence on influenza vaccines is thin” but Dr. Simone finds “evidence of widespread manipulation of conclusions and spurious notoriety of the studies.”

Mercury is a toxin, of course, but mercury is present in several forms of the flu vaccine. A form of mercury called thimerosal, and even mercury itself, appears in some flu vaccines as a preservative. Dr. Simone directs those curious about the presence of those toxins in vaccine products to visit the FDA’s web site to see for themselves. For its part, and without the benefit of conclusive scientific proof, FDA represents to the public that the mercury in vaccines is harmless, but that position is certainly not uncontroversial. In any event, Dr. Simone explains that not all flu vaccines lawful for sale to the public contain thimerosal and mercury, which begs the ultimate question: If vaccines can be lawfully made without those toxins, why in the world are the manufacturers making them with them?

- See more at: http://www.newswithviews.com/Emord/j....BFii5axa.dpuf
Not in the Elderly: 5707 articles screened, 64 studies used in 98 flu season: ‘Evidence for protection is lacking.’ Lancet and Cochrane.”

In short, precious few Americans experience any protective effect from the flu vaccine.




- See more at: Attorney Jonathan Emord -- The Flu Vaccine: More Hype than Substance?
- See more at: Attorney Jonathan Emord -- The Flu Vaccine: More Hype than Substance?
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:21 PM   #188
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:24 PM   #189
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Now there's prevention for illness, along with food.
Again, I say food is healthcare, medicine is sick care.
Naturopaths profit as well as doctors, they just have different methods to prevent illness.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:28 PM   #190
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There appear to be periodic outbreaks among the unvaccinated Amish (primarily) communities. HERE is a story from their own sources.

Surely you're not saying that the administration of the Salk and Sabin vaccines in the mid-20th century was a mistake??!! Why do you think polio has been largely eradicated?

Rusty
The argument has evidently come down to "since the vaccine worked so well, no one needs it anymore".

The same has been said of smallpox...most folks under the age of forty haven't been vaccinated against that since it was "officially eradicated" many years ago. We'll see how well the "don't bother" approach holds up if/when someone weaponizes one of the stocks of the smallpox virus held by many countries and lets it loose on a largely unvaccinated population.

Or even if the virus escapes on its own, a real possibility given the instability of some of the places where it's supposedly under lock and key.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:49 PM   #191
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Just a reminder this thread is about flu vaccines, (although we are all expanding the topic) and the idea that they may be forced upon individuals who have decided they do not want them; and the idea they can be fired from their job if they refuse them. That is a human rights issue of freedom to decide if you want to be vaccinated, or not.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:51 PM   #192
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No, the flu shot is just a superficial transportation mode for a much deeper topic.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:59 PM   #193
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obviously...LOL we are all having trouble staying out of the deep end
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:21 PM   #194
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Sooo, political agendas are allowed on here if you package them right. Comical.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:13 PM   #195
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Sooo, political agendas are allowed on here if you package them right. Comical.
No politics, no political agenda, just conversation.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:34 AM   #196
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Yikes! More truth about vaccines...and good conversations within from believers on both sides. We really should ensure that we have the choice.
Collective-Evolution – The Shocking Truth About What’s Really In Vaccines
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