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Old 02-21-2013, 07:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by JayGee View Post
But if you refused both then I imagine you would be released?

I certainly hope that the employees in a medical environment can not set their own rules. If they do I would not want to go to that hospital. I would only want to go to or send a loved one to a hospital that enforces stringent rules that provide a safe medical environment for me.
I can't imagine why someone would refuse to wear a mask, but I do understand why some would refuse flu vaccination.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:21 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by 2Labs View Post
I wonder what the result would have been if either of these nurses were not "candidates" for the flu vaccine.

Myself, I am not a candidate as I had a bout with Bell's Palsy about 10 years ago. I can't remember the last time I had a flu shot (definately not in the last 10-12 years), and only discovered that I could not get a flu shot after reading an article about someone that got a flu shot, and like me, was not aware of the dangers if you've had Bell's Palsy before. If I recall the article correctly they were not informed before getting the shot and had a more severe relapse.

I'll tell 'ya, Bell's Palsy is not fun, is pretty scary at the onset and can be painful. It took MONTHS for me to regain full muscular control of my entire face. I haven't relapsed since that incident, although if I do wear myself out way beyond my limit, I will get a slightly droopy eye for a few days.
Sorry to hear you have BP.
You would think your doctor would know, and advise you not to take a flu shot.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:24 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Francesca View Post
Handwashing????

I think you've mixed influenza up with fecal-oral-transmitted diseases like E-coli. A bacterial infection, and curable.

Flu is a respiratory viral illness for which the only cure is time, and it's spread mostly through the air we all share.

I guess we could all just stop breathing- that way, no one would need a vaccination!
Yes, handwashing helps prevent the spread of influenza.

Avoid close contact.
Avoid close contact with people who are sick. When you are sick, keep your distance from others to protect them from getting sick too.
Stay home when you are sick.
If possible, stay home from work, school, and errands when you are sick. You will help prevent others from catching your illness.
Cover your mouth and nose.
Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing. It may prevent those around you from getting sick.
Cover Your Cough
Stop the Spread of Germs that makes you and others sick.
Clean your hands.
Washing your hands often will help protect you from germs.
Handwashing: Clean Hands Save Lives
Tips on hand washing and using alcohol-based hand sanitizers
Wash Your Hands Often
Brochures and posters from "An Ounce of Prevention" campaign
Clean Hands Campaign
Facts and survey results, educational materials from American Society for Microbiology’s “Clean Hands” campaign
Consumer Advice: Clean: Handwashing
Links to lots of educational materials, including those for parents, schoolchildren, and health care workers. From Home | FoodSafety.gov
It's a SNAP Toolkit: Handwashing
Handwashing materials. Part of It's A SNAP program aimed at preventing school absenteeism. From the School Network for Absenteeism Prevention, a collaborative project of the CDC, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Soap and Detergent Association
Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth.
Most experts believe that flu viruses spread mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby. Less often, a person might also get flu by touching a surface or object that has flu virus on it and then touching their own mouth, eyes or nose.
Stop the Spread of Germs
Healthy habits can protect everyone from getting germs or spreading germs at home, work, or school.
Clean and disinfect surfaces or objects.
Cleaning and disinfecting surfaces and objects that may be contaminated with germs like the flu can help slow the spread of influenza.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/stopgerms.htm

From Children's Hospital Pittsburg:

http://www.chp.edu/CHP/Hand+Washing+to+Prevent+Flu

Wash your hands!
Good hand hygiene is important and effective in preventing the spread of any strain of flu virus.

All influenza viruses are spread from person to person in respiratory droplets propelled by coughs and sneezes from an infected person to the mouth or nose of another person. They also spread when a person touches respiratory droplets on an object or person and then touches his or her own mouth or nose.

Teach your child to cough or sneeze into a tissue and then throw the tissue away, or in the inside of his or her elbow (the “crook” of your arm).

The single most important thing you and your child can do to prevent the spread of influenza virus is — Wash Your Hands! Rub your hands thoroughly with soap and warm water for at least 20 seconds be sure that you reach every surface of you hands and finger nails. That is the amount of time it takes to recite the alphabet — or to sing the “Happy Birthday” song twice. Alcohol-based hand cleaners are also available.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:27 PM   #46
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I can't imagine why someone would refuse to wear a mask, but I do understand why some would refuse flu vaccination.

Years ago my wife and I both had flu shots and both were extremely sick that year with flu. We have not had a flu shot since and have not suffered the flu. I know the arguments that we didn't get the flu from that shot but ???? So that's why we don't get the flu shot.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:28 PM   #47
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I don't get this. What right is there to refusing conditions of employment with the expectation of continued employment? They were informed of the policy well in advance and I suspect they were given multiple opportunities to comply with the policy but chose otherwise. Are my rights violated because my employed requires me to wear a tie? What rights are violated when my employer requires random drug testing as a part of my employment?
Were informed of the policy well in advance of employment? How do you know that?
Wearing a tie isn't known to be hazardous to your health, like the flu shot.
Drug use/abuse has potential to cause harm to those you work for, either through personal harm to yourself or others, or the company's profit through lack of productivity.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:29 PM   #48
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But if you refused both then I imagine you would be released?

I certainly hope that the employees in a medical environment can not set their own rules. If they do I would not want to go to that hospital. I would only want to go to or send a loved one to a hospital that enforces stringent rules that provide a safe medical environment for me.
I believe that employees in a medical environment should have the right to refuse vaccinations and keep their employment in some capacity.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:30 PM   #49
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Years ago my wife and I both had flu shots and both were extremely sick that year with flu. We have not had a flu shot since and have not suffered the flu. I know the arguments that we didn't get the flu from that shot but ???? So that's why we don't get the flu shot.
This is quite common for many people. How do you feel about the nurses losing their jobs because they refused the flu vaccine?
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:30 PM   #50
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Most experts believe that flu viruses spread mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby.

.
It took awhile, but I found it buried in there!
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:31 PM   #51
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Right on Francesca!
Actually I wouldn't suggest we stop breathing, that would cause certain death.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:33 PM   #52
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:33 PM   #53
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Thank you. We seem to forget that employment is not a right, nor a privilege. An employer sets conditions of employment. Employees agree to work under the stated conditions. Employees who do not agree with the conditions do not have to work there. We used to tell our employees we had an obligation to provide a safe environment, and to design and sell quality products so we could stay in business and provide jobs and fair paychecks. Our employees were expected to work safely and competently.

Several years ago we decided, after a lengthy study, that all employees should wear safety shoes (provided at company expense) while in the plant. 20% of the employees refused, some even finding a doctor to say safety shoes were harmful to their feet. After a month or so of silly protests, we simply fired and replaced those employees refusing to wear safety shoes. Were their "rights" violated? Did not care. Safety shoes were a condition of employment.
Indeed to work is a right.
Right to work - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

as per the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

"Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment."
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:36 PM   #54
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Unvaccinated health care workers have a perfect right to work, just not around vulnerable people.

I hear they're hiring sheepherders in the Dakotas...
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:45 PM   #55
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This is quite common for many people. How do you feel about the nurses losing their jobs because they refused the flu vaccine?
Is there really sufficient information for us make that decision? Is or was it really a condition of employment? I haven't read each post word for word. Were there other options? Without having more information my first reaction is they should have taken the shots - kind of like the schools won't allow children to attend unless they have proof of shot.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:15 PM   #56
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Universal Right to Work is a concept of the UN, the U.S. Right to Work laws concern requiring Union membership as a condition of employment.
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If a majority of doctors refuse the flu shots, and a majority of patients and visitors are not getting the flu shot, your environment of - 9% effective vaccine- protected nurses may not be changed severely by several nurses not being inoculated.
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They are professionals, they know the risks both ways, it's their body.
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