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Old 02-21-2013, 08:19 PM   #57
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I have been reading about RV here to get informed. I sure hope you all know more about RV than disease DW is nurse (+25 yrs) and can't take flu shots as she is deadly allergic to (preservative?) something in them. I get them every year. Shot is only 60% effective even if they picked the correct strain(s) to put in it. Been to many parties over the years and can report many topics that health care professionals are just as stupid about as the public. Flu shots are just one area. Healthcare should be based on facts but with all the Voodoo thinking and disregard for the facts we get what we pay for...over priced healthcare and ignorant hospital staff which cause illness and even death. Google non-issues like washing your hands and staff continue to not (and specially doctors) follow guidelines and patients continue to get ill and some die. Not surprized that public is ill-informed and ignorant on flu shots. God help us all if we continue to "ready - fire - aim" on the facts. Just because it on cablenews, the internet or in a book does not mean its true. I'm french model "au revoir"
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca View Post
It took awhile, but I found it buried in there!
Did you read the rest of it though?

hmmm, I wonder what the rest of the experts believe?

I'm so happy when I see children sneeze and cough into their elbows.
I don't see many adults doing it though...I have been coughed on and sneezed on while walking by adults in the past three months. I simply said, "Thanks for sharing" as they walked by.

Here's another way to prevent colds, especially when flying on airlines.
http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/ne...ill-cold-virus
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:28 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Francesca View Post



What is that? Ignorance is blissful?
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:30 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Francesca View Post
Unvaccinated health care workers have a perfect right to work, just not around vulnerable people.

I hear they're hiring sheepherders in the Dakotas...
You do realize that some people become ill with the flu from the vaccines?
You do realize that some vaccines have been tried, and failed?
You do realize that not all non vaccinated people get the flu?
I'm trying to understand the logic...but I'm just hearing lalalalala
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:38 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by 1ciderdog View Post
Is there really sufficient information for us make that decision? Is or was it really a condition of employment? I haven't read each post word for word. Were there other options? Without having more information my first reaction is they should have taken the shots - kind of like the schools won't allow children to attend unless they have proof of shot.
On the contrary, a child cannot be excluded from public or private education on the grounds that they have not been vaccinated.
Parents can opt out of vaccinations for their children.

Note: "Exemptions allowed" (even for philosophical reasons) http://vaccines.procon.org/
Here's why those numbers are growing:

The fact that vaccines can cause injury and death officially was acknowledged in the United States in 1986 when Congress passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, creating a no-fault federal compensation system for vaccine-injured children to protect the vaccine manufacturers and doctors from personal-injury lawsuits. Since then, the system has paid out more than $1 billion to 1,000 families, whose loved ones have died or been harmed by vaccines, even though three out of four applicants are turned away.

Since 1990, between 12,000 and 14,000 reports of hospitalizations, injuries and deaths following vaccination are made to the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, or VAERS, annually, but it is estimated that only between 1 and 10 percent of all doctors make reports to VAERS. Therefore, the number of vaccine-related health problems occurring in the United States every year may be more than 1 million.

Because so little medical research has been conducted on vaccine side effects, no tests have been developed to identify and screen out vulnerable children. As a result, public-health officials have taken a “one-size-fits-all” approach and have aggressively implemented mandatory vaccination laws while dismissing children who are injured or die after vaccination as unfortunate but necessary sacrifices “for the greater good.” This utilitarian rationale is of little comfort to the growing number of mothers and fathers who watch their once-healthy, bright children get vaccinated and then suddenly descend into mental retardation, epilepsy, learning and behavior disorders, autism, diabetes, arthritis and asthma. Some adverse reactions are fatal.


Instead of epidemics of measles and polio, we have epidemics of chronic autoimmune and neurological disease: In the last 20 years rates of asthma and attention-deficit disorder have doubled, diabetes and learning disabilities have tripled, chronic arthritis now affects nearly one in five Americans and autism has increased by 300 percent or more in many states. The larger unanswered question is: To what extent has the administration of multiple doses of multiple vaccines in early childhood — when the body’s brain and immune system is developing at its most rapid rate — been a co-factor in epidemics of chronic disease? The assumption mass-vaccination policies have played no role is as unscientific and dangerous as the assumption that an individual child’s health problems following vaccination are only coincidentally related to the vaccination.
http://www.whale.to/m/fisher8.htmlvaccination.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:42 PM   #62
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Chemist Gives 3 Reasons He Doesn't Vaccinate | Vaccination | Vaccine | Immunization | Immunity | Immune System | Whooping Cough | Flu Vaccine | ThePeoplesChemist.com
Parents who choose not to vaccinate their children are often chastised and stereotyped for putting their own kids at risk. But what is even stranger than this assault on individual freedom and informed choice, is that these concerned parents are attacked for putting vaccinated children at risk.
These attacks are based on the theory of “herd immunity.” This hypothesis was plucked out of an old college textbook. It states that the more people are immune to an infectious agent, the less likely an immune-compromised individual is to come in contact with it. In other words herd immunity serves as a human shield – a type of immunity – for “at-risk” individuals. But remember, it’s only a hypothesis.
When outbreaks arise among children, health officials are quick to state that it’s due to a breakdown in ‘herd immunity.‘ Doctors parrot it too, without even looking at the research. They say it’s happening more often nationwide as states make it easier for parents to opt out of vaccinations.
Like argumentative apes, pro-vaccine parents and their physicians start pounding their chest in favor of such statements. They use them to attack anti-vaccine parents, accusing them of “putting vaccinated kids at risk due to a breakdown in herd immunity.”
This is fuzzy logic. And it’s borderline stupid.
After all, if vaccines truly worked, then why would vaccinated kids be at risk?
…Plus, the spread of infection isn’t limited to coming into contact with another person! You can get sick without ever seeing another individual.
Herd immunity is nothing more than a silly catch-phrase used to scare and bully parents into vaccinating their kids.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:43 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Sweetbriar View Post
I don't get this. What right is there to refusing conditions of employment with the expectation of continued employment? They were informed of the policy well in advance and I suspect they were given multiple opportunities to comply with the policy but chose otherwise. Are my rights violated because my employed requires me to wear a tie? What rights are violated when my employer requires random drug testing as a part of my employment?
I agree with you.the problem lies with to what degree are we okay with compliance? Obviously when these nurses took the job it was not a requirement. So they imposed it after the fact. Secondly there is an obvious debate about the relative safety of vaccinations. So if your employer decided everyone should be X rayed before entering work each day but told you it was safe your okay with that?
My first comment was maybe they should have chosen a different profession but having time to think about it more I would not be okay with my employer forcing me to inject myself with something I was concerned to be unsafe. A bit different than wearing a tie or submitting to a drug test.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:45 PM   #64
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Six Reasons To Say NO to Vaccination

1. Pharmaceutical companies can't be trusted.
2. All vaccines are loaded with chemicals and other poisons.
3. Fully vaccinated children are the unhealthiest most chronically ill children
4. Other countries are waking up to the dangers of vaccines.
5. A number of vaccines have already caused problems and been removed from the market.
6. You can always get vaccinated, but you can never undo a vaccination.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:49 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
Universal Right to Work is a concept of the UN, the U.S. Right to Work laws concern requiring Union membership as a condition of employment.
-------
If a majority of doctors refuse the flu shots, and a majority of patients and visitors are not getting the flu shot, your environment of - 9% effective vaccine- protected nurses may not be changed severely by several nurses not being inoculated.
------
They are professionals, they know the risks both ways, it's their body.
Requirement for Union Membership is only a condition for employment in Union jobs with a 'closed shop'. There are many non-unionized jobs available in North America.

If those who have the vaccine should be exempt from the illness, then why would an unvaccinated person be of concern?
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Baddad53 View Post
I have been reading about RV here to get informed. I sure hope you all know more about RV than disease DW is nurse (+25 yrs) and can't take flu shots as she is deadly allergic to (preservative?) something in them. I get them every year. Shot is only 60% effective even if they picked the correct strain(s) to put in it. Been to many parties over the years and can report many topics that health care professionals are just as stupid about as the public. Flu shots are just one area. Healthcare should be based on facts but with all the Voodoo thinking and disregard for the facts we get what we pay for...over priced healthcare and ignorant hospital staff which cause illness and even death. Google non-issues like washing your hands and staff continue to not (and specially doctors) follow guidelines and patients continue to get ill and some die. Not surprized that public is ill-informed and ignorant on flu shots. God help us all if we continue to "ready - fire - aim" on the facts. Just because it on cablenews, the internet or in a book does not mean its true. I'm french model "au revoir"
I would like to know what your wife thinks about firing nurses who have refused to be vaccinated. Thanks for your contribution!
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:53 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by greatlakes View Post
I agree with you.the problem lies with to what degree are we okay with compliance? Obviously when these nurses took the job it was not a requirement. So they imposed it after the fact. Secondly there is an obvious debate about the relative safety of vaccinations. So if your employer decided everyone should be X rayed before entering work each day but told you it was safe your okay with that?
My first comment was maybe they should have chosen a different profession but having time to think about it more I would not be okay with my employer forcing me to inject myself with something I was concerned to be unsafe. A bit different than wearing a tie or submitting to a drug test.
I like the points you made here. Thanks for sharing your critical thinking style.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:59 PM   #68
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Somebody sure has an agenda, wonder why???
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:08 PM   #69
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Heard about this on the news, and posted it "Just for Conversation" to see how this group feels. Not really an agenda, just a time filler in the rainy/snowy weather
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:50 PM   #70
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