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Old 02-21-2013, 09:58 PM   #71
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No, Muddypaws, I am not a troll. I am a conversationalist. LOL
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:01 PM   #72
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HappyCCrv (I like your posts) and others.

Let us just for the moment state that the nurses "should" be vaccinated.

However, let us then require that every person that enters the hospital, whether they be a patient or employee will require a notarized document stating that they have been vaccinated.

After all, let us think outside the box. If a nurse can cause an epidemic because they have not been vaccinated, then surely anyone that enters the hospital can also cause an epidemic. It would not be enough to just trust a person to say they have been vaccinated, would it?

How stupid can stupid be to even begin to think that only the employees of a hospital can cause a virus to spread. Think about it - all persons entering the hospital. That would be all delivery people, firemen, policemen, visitors in general and on, and on, and on. Every single person entering that hospital can spread a virus. Where does it end, where?

Happy trails.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:31 PM   #73
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There is a difference

The medical professional is going to come into contact with hundreds of people every week, some of whom will probably have the flu.

If the medical professional becomes infected they become a prime vector to infect hundreds more.

Same goes for teachers. Double that for primary school teachers. I often refer to small children as VDUs. Virus Distribution Units. And teachers need all the protection they can get.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:03 AM   #74
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Wayne, and Muddypaws, both good statements of opinion, opening the door for more ideas. Thanks for your contributions!
Again, I ask the question though, if vaccinations are considered foolproof, then why would non vaccinated people be of concern?
Another question: Do employers require that teachers be vaccinated as well as the children?
If parents choose not to vaccinate their children, should they insist that teachers be vaccinated?

Interesting that our friends who always get the flu shots (and try to convince us to get them too, at the corner drug store), and also vaccinate their children (whom they home-school) - why are they always getting the flu?

Very good discussion folks....
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:29 AM   #75
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I have been around the medical community all my life. My father was a Dr. 90% of my friends were Dr.s, and not one of them would inject their own families or suggest to their patients they take it. If they wanted on they would give it to them. As has been reported, and correctly so the success of the vaccination is minor at best by not only the Feds. data, but also the company's that produce the vaccination. One takes the shot hoping to bypass getting the flu by injecting the very virus into their body the very thing they are trying to avoid, how logical is that. Those that say they avoided getting the flu by taking the shot, how do they know. Hundreds of thousands of people get the shot and flu every yr. and others don't get the shot or virus every yr. When does this type of requirement become invasion of privacy. I have never had the shot or the flu, nor will i. I try to keep the virus out of my body, not put it in on purpose.
So, what will you do when it become mandatory for every us resident to get the shot, roll over even if you don't believe or oppose them, or do what these nurses did and stand up for their beliefs and rights and refuse. Would love to sit on their jury. AJMHO
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:37 AM   #76
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I'm conflicted on this one, too. Whose rights prevail, patients' or nurses'? For sake of argument, let's say a nurse or doctor has an open wound on their arm. Would they be required to notify their employer and be assessed before they treated a patient? Would they be required to notify the same if they had the flu? Would they still be compensated, particularly the nurse, if they were directed to stay home until healed, especially if they had previously not taken a flu shot? I'm glad I don't have to make decisions like this one.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:13 AM   #77
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Let's just throw this out there for hypothetical discussion. What if in 5 years there is a study that proves without debate that immunization shots are cause for increase in food allergies, cancer and developmental defects? What would be the recourse? Huge right? So it would be advantageous for not only the drug companies but the gov to squash such a study.
I'm not big on conspiracy Theorys but the FDA has approved and promoted vaccinations for years and would look silly if wrong.
Because our government has never forced the general populationy to comply with something that later turned out to be a bad thing right?
So you can be a sheep and just do what people say when it comes to your well being. Or do some research and question what's best and do what you feel its best for you. I personally feel there has been enough conflicting research and studies to question the safety of vaccinations. So I never have and prob never will get one. I also have not had the flu since my kids were little 18 years ago.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:58 AM   #78
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Good discussion !!!
and for those of you with STRONG opinions - hope you allow us to make our own decisions - otherwise MY opinion is that they make you buy purple rv's

In our household we've not taken the flu shots in 20 odd years...

I stopped way back when I found they use eggs in some way as a transport mechanism and being allergic to eggs..... avoided them...

none of us have had the flu that I recall - maybe a cold, but no flu...

Is it possible that healthy nutrition has a larger impact than 'cleanliness' ?


Nah, I'm snacking on home made fudge now
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:07 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laj View Post
I have been around the medical community all my life. My father was a Dr. 90% of my friends were Dr.s, and not one of them would inject their own families or suggest to their patients they take it. If they wanted on they would give it to them. As has been reported, and correctly so the success of the vaccination is minor at best by not only the Feds. data, but also the company's that produce the vaccination. One takes the shot hoping to bypass getting the flu by injecting the very virus into their body the very thing they are trying to avoid, how logical is that. Those that say they avoided getting the flu by taking the shot, how do they know. Hundreds of thousands of people get the shot and flu every yr. and others don't get the shot or virus every yr. When does this type of requirement become invasion of privacy. I have never had the shot or the flu, nor will i. I try to keep the virus out of my body, not put it in on purpose.
So, what will you do when it become mandatory for every us resident to get the shot, roll over even if you don't believe or oppose them, or do what these nurses did and stand up for their beliefs and rights and refuse. Would love to sit on their jury. AJMHO
Thank you for your contribution to this discussion laj. It is very good to hear from those who have close experience with people in the medical profession. I appreciate you speaking your own truth.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:11 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatlakes View Post
Let's just throw this out there for hypothetical discussion. What if in 5 years there is a study that proves without debate that immunization shots are cause for increase in food allergies, cancer and developmental defects? What would be the recourse? Huge right? So it would be advantageous for not only the drug companies but the gov to squash such a study.
I'm not big on conspiracy Theorys but the FDA has approved and promoted vaccinations for years and would look silly if wrong.
Because our government has never forced the general populationy to comply with something that later turned out to be a bad thing right?
So you can be a sheep and just do what people say when it comes to your well being. Or do some research and question what's best and do what you feel its best for you. I personally feel there has been enough conflicting research and studies to question the safety of vaccinations. So I never have and prob never will get one. I also have not had the flu since my kids were little 18 years ago.
Good point on acceptance and funding of studies!
There is a lot more to know about the FDA as well, but we do have to look for it. Some people call that information 'left wing', but there is truth in it, no way to deny that. And once you know, you cannot pretend not to know.
Research is an invaluable tool that many feel they don't have time for, so they believe the professionals who profit from their ignorance. (ignorance meaning only that they 'do not know' or 'are unaware'.)
Thanks for your contribution to this discussion.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:20 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoyToo View Post
Good discussion !!!
and for those of you with STRONG opinions - hope you allow us to make our own decisions - otherwise MY opinion is that they make you buy purple rv's

In our household we've not taken the flu shots in 20 odd years...

I stopped way back when I found they use eggs in some way as a transport mechanism and being allergic to eggs..... avoided them...

none of us have had the flu that I recall - maybe a cold, but no flu...

Is it possible that healthy nutrition has a larger impact than 'cleanliness' ?


Nah, I'm snacking on home made fudge now
JohnBoyToo, it is not only possible that nutrition plays a larger role than cleanliness, it is probable. However it has also been proven that cleanliness contributes as a factor in prevention. Therefore, using both strategies would seem to be a stronger insurance of prevention?

Flu Vaccine Exposed
Currently, all commercially available flu vaccines are made from viruses cultivated in chicken eggs and then collected, purified, tested for safety and efficacy, and once approved, distributed to care providers.

Of course we know this is referring to the FDA's 'approval'.

In a public vaccination program designed to prevent a pandemic swine flu outbreak in 1979, about 25% of people in the United States were vaccinated. Unfortunately, the 1979 vaccine was associated with a small increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome, a serious neurological condition, with the risk estimated to be one to nine excess cases per million doses of vaccine, but no cause for this increase in risk was ever discovered. Fortunately, no pandemic developed, and the vaccination program for that flu virus was cancelled.

Although only a few different influenza virus strains circulate in human populations at any given time, people may continue to become ill with the flu throughout their lives. The reason for this continuing susceptibility is that the eight RNA strands that comprise the influenza virus genome are continually mutating through the mechanisms of antigenic shift and drift.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:22 AM   #82
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More on flu shot ingredients:

The Truth About the Flu Shot | Dr. Tenpenny

Egg proteins: including avian contaminant viruses
Gelatin: can cause allergic reactions and anaphylaxis are usually associated with sensitivity to egg or gelatin
Polysorbate 80 (Tween80™): can cause severe allergic reactions, including
anaphylaxis. Also associated with inferility in female mice.
Formaldehyde: known carcinogen
Triton X100: a strong detergent
Sucrose: table sugar
Resin: known to cause allergic reactions
Gentamycin: an antibiotic
Thimerosal: mercury is still in multidose flu shot vials
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:25 AM   #83
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more from The Truth About the Flu Shot:
Do flu shots work?

Not in babies: In a review of more than 51 studies involving more than 294,000 children it was found there was “no evidence that injecting children 6-24 months of age with a flu shotwas any more effective than placebo. In children over 2 yrs, it was only effective 33% of the time in preventing the flu.
Reference: “Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children.” The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 2 (2008).

Not in children with asthma: A study 800 children with asthma, where one half were vaccinated and the other half did not receive the influenza vaccine. The two groups were compared with respect to clinic visits, emergency department (ED) visits, and hospitalizations for asthma. CONCLUSION: This study failed to provide evidence that the influenza vaccine prevents pediatric asthma exacerbations.
Reference: “Effectiveness of influenza vaccine for the prevention of asthma exacerbations.” Christly, C. et al. Arch Dis Child. 2004 Aug;89(8):734-5.

Not in children with asthma (2): “The inactivated flu vaccine, Flumist, does not prevent influenza-related hospitalizations in children, especially the ones with asthma…In fact, children who get the flu vaccine are more at risk for hospitalization than children who do not get the vaccine.”
Reference: The American Thoracic Society’s 105th International Conference, May 15-20, 2009, San Diego.

Not in adults: In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, “Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work.”
Reference: “Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults.” The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

Not in the Elderly: In a review of 64 studies in 98 flu seasons, For elderly living in nursing homes, flu shots were non-significant for preventing the flu. For elderly living in the community, vaccines were not (significantly) effective against influenza, ILI or pneumonia.
Reference: “Vaccines for preventing influenza in the elderly.” The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews.3 (2006).

What about the new Swine Flu shot?
Some of the new H1N1 (swine flu) vaccines are going to be made by Novartis. These shots will probably be made in PER.C6 cells (human retina cells) and contain MF59, a potentially debilitating adjuvant. MF-59 is an oil-based adjuvant primarily composed of squalene.


Is this concerning?

Is Mandatory Vaccination Possible?

1946: US Public Health Service was established and Executive Order (EO) 9708 was signed, listing the communicable diseases where quarantines could be used. 1946 and 2003, cholera, diphtheria, TB, typhoid, smallpox, yellow fever, & viral hemorrhagic fevers were added.

April 4, 2003: EO 13295 added SARS to the list.

April 1, 2005: EO 13295 added “Influenza caused by novel or re-emergent influenza viruses that are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic.” EO 13295 also: The president gave the Sec. of HHS the power to quarantine, his or her discretion. Sec of HHS has the power to arrange for the “apprehension and examination of persons reasonably thought to be infected.” A cough or a fever could put a person at risk for being quarantined for an extended period of time without recourse.

January 28, 2003: Project BioShield was introduced during Bush’s State of the Union Address. This created permanent and indefinite funding authority to develop “medical countermeasures.”
The NIH was given authority to speed approval of drugs and vaccines. Emergency approval of a “fast tracked” drug and vaccine can be given without the regular course of safety testing.

December 17, 2006: Division E: The Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREPA) was added as an addendum to Defense Appropriations Bill HR 2863 at 11:20p on Saturday night, long after House Committee members
had signed off on the bill and gone home for the holidays.
Section (b)(1) states: The Sec of HHS can make a determination that a “disease, health condition or threat” constitutes a public health emergency. He or she may then recommend “the manufacture, testing, development, administration, or use of one or more covered counter measures…” A covered countermeasure defined as a “pandemic product, vaccine or drug.”
Division E also provides complete liability protection for all drugs, vaccines or biological products deemed a “covered countermeasure” and used for an outbreak of any kind. In July, 2009, complete liability protection was extened to drug companies that included any product used for any public health emergency declared by Sec of HHS.

Pharma is now protected from all accountability, unless “criminal intent to do harm” can be proven by the injured party. They are protected from liability even if they know the drug will be harmful.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:25 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatlakes View Post
If getting vaccinations was against their religion maybe they should have picked a different proffession. I can respect their civil rights until it conflicts with the rights of the people they are caring for. I would be angry to have a 80yr old relative go into the hospital to be treated for a broken foot and die from the flu they contracted.
Just my two sense, but if your 80 year old relative had taken a flu shot, there would be no issue. Now if that same relative was against getting a shot, then why should the nurses not have the same right?
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