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Old 02-16-2011, 05:35 PM   #29
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Hand the situation over to "CAPTAIN AMERICA" O'reilly for his talking points

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Old 02-16-2011, 05:43 PM   #30
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I have not read the story of what happened in the Wal Mart so I am just going by what I read here. If he went in a wal mart to shoplift with a gun he had a lot more on his mind than shop lifting. There is only one reason a crook has a gun and it is not for self protection. It is to gain his freedom any time he gets grabbed breaking the law. And for the folks who say a laptop is not worth fighting for. Then tell me were you do fight? Is it ten dollars one hundred dollars or do you just give them scum bags every thing. If you are a passive person and don't think property is worth fighting for that is fine for you, but the guy who thinks these guys need to be stopped should not be punished for it. Next week we will read about someone or several someones who stood by and did nothing as a person broke some law and they will be the coward sun of a guns. So who ever said your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't is dam well right.
Crooks know the stores that won't do a thing when they get caught and that will be the places they hit first and most often. So the folks that think WalMart is correct in there way of taking care of this problem remember. When you are in there shopping you will have a better chance in WalMart of seeing shoplifters and thieves then in a store that don't take there crap.

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Old 02-16-2011, 09:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Chuck 1935 View Post
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:07 PM   #32
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Ray said that Longton could have left, but he decided on another action.
"He instead grabbed Gabe by the shoulder and had the gun at his back and kept making threats," Ray said. "He had the opportunity, the door was to his back, and he wouldn't leave."
Again.. he pulled the gun, then wouldnt leave..Why bring a gun in the first place? If you got caught, the employees would take the merchandise and then not stop you as you left.. thats the policy... it is in most stores.

I agree with another poster in that he prolly didnt intend to 'just' shoplift in the first place. In my book, they saved lives.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:10 PM   #33
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I hear China Mart misses a lot. They insure their employees with a life insurance policy good for 5,000$. If the employee dies on the job, China Mart collects on policy. So why would they care if the employee tried to stop something?
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:56 AM   #34
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Official Answer?

Are there any law enforcement officers in the forum who would like to give us an official answer?
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:34 AM   #35
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I was a full time police officer a few years back. It really is a bad thing the way walmart operates. I'm sure they won't let even thier loss prevention people to carry a weapon so what are they supposed to do? As robin williams once said if your a unarmed cop (england) you say say "stop",.....followed by "stop or I'll chase you"
If the guy showed a gun, or even implied he had a gun and did not in the commision of a theft offense I'd think it would become a armed robbery even if he stole a mere candy bar. (disclaimer: in most states )

Untill the walmart customers shop less there after demanding better protection i don't see things changing there very much.
And that is just one of the many reasons I shop at china-mart a little as possible.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:18 AM   #36
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I have a different take on the matter. Wal-Mart's policy is a reflection of our society. We permit people to sue Wal-Mart because of the actions of their employees in such matters so the insurance companies that cover Wal-Mart (and others) demand that employees take no action to defend themselves or the store's customers. It is the same at 7-11, who has also fired employees because they confronted robbers. I've always felt that being an after hours clerk in a gas station in many parts of many cities is more dangerous than being in Iraq. At least there, you are given weapons and permitted to defend yourself.

At some level, the intent is correct. No laptop is worth a human life. The problem is that no one can predict what will happen during a robbery and many of those committing that crime simply shoot the employees so as not to leave witnesses. More often than that, the robber has never had instruction in proper handling of a firearm and shoots someone (or himself) accidentally.

It is also a consideration that untrained people confronting an armed robber can do more harm then good, to themselves and others.

The vast majority of the time, however, confronting those intent on harm goes well for the good guys. It is reported in surveys that 66% of recidivist criminals are more worried about homeowners than they are the police. They know that the police intend to take them alive if possible. The homeowner may not be under the same obligation.

There are many political movements who want to stop all resistance to crime. In the UK, for example, a recent ruling prevents homeowners from putting wire up over their windows because thieves might hurt themselves when they break in. That's just nuts. The goal of such groups seems to be to make populations completely subservient and dependent on the government. The US has been asked to sign a UN treaty that would, for all practical purposes, accomplish exactly that.

I'm no fan of Wal-Mart's policy and think these four guys got an especially raw deal. To blame Wal-Mart alone, however ,is to not recognize the environment in which they operate.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:04 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by sknight View Post
I had a lengthy response written but I'll leave it at this.

Rolling over and playing dead for criminals is going to be one of the downfalls of America.
I fully agree, Too many stories of people screaming for help and everybody just turns their head and walks on.

A better story comes from a gun store... A man decided to rob the store. but he had to park his getaway car across the street cause the parking spot in front of the store was taken.... by a marked patrol car.

Suffice to say he won't be making that mistake ever again.

(Several customers drew down on him, the Deputy did the honors, at least officially)
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:21 AM   #38
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For a definitive answer look at the so called airport security. It looks to me like the governments are giving perverts, deviates and crooks the right to decide who gets to fly. For a case in point look at the $40,000.00 stolen from the passenger in New York.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:00 PM   #39
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After reading the post in this forum, I realize why things are like they are, and probably will not get better any time soon.

It will take a new generation with the will to change things for things to turn around.

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Old 02-17-2011, 12:14 PM   #40
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I'm sad to say this happened in my state. One that firmly believes in it's citizens owning and carrying firearms. We seam to have a very good record of armed people being stopped by other armed people before they do more damage than they all ready have. We also have the lawyer types of the Brady bunch in Salt Lake right now trying to sue a pawn shop owner over a mass shooting.

There is a point where on has to stand and fight. To each there own on where you make your stand, but for me this is a clear case of a turd floating in the gene pool. He's dam lucky that he's alive to stand trial and not in boot hill. A armed society is a polite one.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:23 PM   #41
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It's all about a potential lawsuit when something goes wrong. Employee attempts to apprehend the perp and a customer gets shot by accident=huge lawsuit against Walmart. Joe
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:28 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by azloafer View Post
It's all about a potential lawsuit when something goes wrong. Employee attempts to apprehend the perp and a customer gets shot by accident=huge lawsuit against Walmart. Joe
I think Joe has it exactly right, even a police officer has to take civilian casualties into the equation. The value one places on a life must certainly be more than a DVD player.

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