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Old 12-19-2012, 03:07 AM   #183
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I wish there was an easy answer to mental illness.

The day we moved in to the S&B home, my wife called me at the old house to say I had to come home right away. When I told her I was not finished loading and asked why (I still remember her exact words "Michael has killed Aunt Christy". THis was in 1996.

Michael was Aunt Christy's adopted son. He as in his late teens at the time. Michael suffered from mental illness. While on his meds was quasi normal. When off his meds he was a fiend. He stabbed his mom several times when she stopped over to his apt for a visit.

Legally he could not be forced to take his meds, he could not be locked up for his own protection or the protection of others when off his meds.

My wife drove past him walking down the street the night he killed his mom, she still avoids that street today.

The easy answer for me is if you can't make them take their meds, lock them away. If possible provide them help while locked away,, but lock them away.

I may seem a bit harsh but your rights cease when they begin to infringe upon the rights of others. Will not go into my uncle's opinion of what should be done with Michael.

Society, at least a certain part of it worked hard to protect Michael's rights, while ignoring the possible consequences of their actions.

After 10 years in the Navy, I understand the objective of, We fight for those who can't fight for themselves. At some point though, society needs to come to grips with if someone is a danger to others then action is required.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:18 AM   #184
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Connecticut has some of the strictest laws in the country,plus all schools are "gun free zones" so more laws are not going to accomplish anything-you can't enforce the laws that are in the books now!
If the speed limit in a school zone is 20 mph and you have a group of people who insist on driving 40 mph, enacting a new law thats reduces the speed limit to 15 mph will do nothing to deter that group of people. Enforce the existing laws before making new ones.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:55 AM   #185
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I was watching coverage on CNN last night and was pleased that they were not discussing or showing pictures of the killer. I have yet to see his picture and this suits me fine. Is this the case with the other news programs?
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:09 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdennislee View Post
If the speed limit in a school zone is 20 mph and you have a group of people who insist on driving 40 mph, enacting a new law thats reduces the speed limit to 15 mph will do nothing to deter that group of people. Enforce the existing laws before making new ones.
I agree. Enforce what are on the books now. Encourage teachers to take advantage of laws that permit self defense and the defense of their students. Realize that free will is an unpredictable human trait and some persons are going to choose to do evil and many of those are going to be impossible to catch before they commit to their crimes [moderator edit]
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #187
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Most of the "talking heads" are demanding more laws. Can you name me one law that has stopped criminal activity? I see laws broken every day, driving infractions, murder, robbery, drug use, etc. Criminals break the law and we will always have criminals. Unfortunately, we can't legislate morality. Amongst all of the calls on TV for more laws, I see the commercials for 3 or more very violent movies playing now. Hollywood types won't stand for any laws reducing the violence in their product and they have as much or more clout ($$$$) with politicians than the NRA.

Just my opinion.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:49 PM   #188
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Most of the "talking heads" are demanding more laws. Can you name me one law that has stopped criminal activity? I see laws broken every day, driving infractions, murder, robbery, drug use, etc. Criminals break the law and we will always have criminals. Unfortunately, we can't legislate morality.
So you're saying we should have no laws at all?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:54 PM   #189
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So you're saying we should have no laws at all?
That is not what I said at all and I think you know that. What I said is laws don't stop criminal activity. What they do is provide punishment for those who break them.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #190
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That is not what I said at all and I think you know that. What I said is laws don't stop criminal activity. What they do is provide punishment for those who break them.
What do you think punishment does

does it not minimize criminal activity?
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:23 PM   #191
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What do you think punishment does

does it not minimize criminal activity?
Only for those who are locked up. Check on repeat offenders stats. Every day the news is filled with stories about criminals getting caught again, many who recently released from jail or prison.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:35 PM   #192
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Have any of you heard on your News about the 6th grader here in Utah that brought a gun and ammo to school?? Although the gun was not loaded he supposedly showed it from his back pack and then is accused of pointing it at a girl. His rational for bringing it to school was for protection in the wake of the CT. shootings. He is in custody and is being charged. The gun belongs to a visiting family member.
Just curious to see if this got much coverage since there was no one injured.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:40 PM   #193
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I don't need to look at stats to understand that punishment is a strong deterrent and the stronger the punishment the stronger the deterrent. Stats give you the numbers year by year but cannot tell you how many crimes have been prevented. An example of change in punishment one year and stats showing no decrease the next year does not show you what the numbers would have been if the stronger punishment was not implemented. You have to rely on common sense. Of course it would not deter anyone who is willing to give their own life like this guy did.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:36 PM   #194
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What do you think punishment does

does it not minimize criminal activity?
Here where I live they have really cracked down on impaired drivers. It didn't end the problem, but it sure has people finding other modes of travel after drinking. There will always be those that will do it.

The harsher the penalty the less people will commit these crimes. The countries that use caneing for example, have pretty good success in deterring crime.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:57 PM   #195
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Here where I live they have really cracked down on impaired drivers. It didn't end the problem, but it sure has people finding other modes of travel after drinking. There will always be those that will do it.

The harsher the penalty the less people will commit these crimes. The countries that use caneing for example, have pretty good success in deterring crime.
Places that cut off the hand of a thief results in the thief only being able to repeat the crime one more time. A person devient enough to think out a crime before committing it doen't plan on getting caught, they think they are too smart for that, so punishment isn't a deterrent.

A person committing the horrendous crime as in Newtown has already decided they are worthless and planning to die, they're just trying to leave maximum impact on others as a way of being remembered. I can't think of any way of deterring them except better mental health services. We had attacks by airplane, so we raised security at airports. Same with courthouses. If we make every school like an airport or a courthouse, what about malls? theatres? restaurants? It comes down to dealing with mental health, not putting everything behind security gates or passing more laws. A sick person isn't going to follow the rules of law or society, that's why they're sick.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:18 PM   #196
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Once again it seems we are straying from the original topic of the thread.
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