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Old 12-23-2009, 08:33 AM   #43
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Thank you moderator's for not taking this thread off. It may sound political and may even be political, but there has been some excellent information shared here.
The main criteria is; Is the inclusion of political/government comments appropriate to the discussion. If yes, then there is no problem as long as the discussion remains civil and within our rules.

The problem is when posts start ranting about politicians/government or Dems vs GOP. That's when the thread goes downhill fast and we are forced to intervene.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:33 AM   #44
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Thank you moderator's for not taking this thread off. It may sound political and may even be political, but there has been some excellent information shared here.

I have similar decisions to make in the coming months myself and will continue to watch this thread.

I agree whole heartily, it has helped me tremendously

Thanks,

Ron
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:02 AM   #45
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Whatever the end bill looks like, or if any bill passes at all, it will be good for most health care stocks.

If more people are insured, the more money that will be spent on health care! Doctors visits, treatments, procedures, tests and medications!

If the insurance companies are required to eliminate or reduce premium discrimination by charging un-healthy or older people less, they will charge younger or healthy people more!

If they have to take Medicare benefits away via reductions to pay for more people on Medicaid, the end result is still greater total expenditures!

If everyone is required to have insurance or pay a tax penalty, the insurance companies will make more, or the government gets more tax revenue to cover their costs!

It's a win/win or lose/lose, depending on your point of view.

The end result is that it is going to cost a lot more and it has to be paid for!

Where do you think that extra money is going to come from?

I hear that France has a wonderful plan that most people love, their monthly premiums are $30.00. Then again their average combined tax rate for income and social security is 70% of their average income!

I don't know about you, but it all sounds like a good deal for all to me!

This message was brought to you by the new owner of your life, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:19 PM   #46
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I was at my Cardiologist's office yesterday. I told him I would be needing a knee replacement soon. He told me I was unlikely to get it. I am 68, have beat prostate cancer, had 2 heart attacks and a quad bypass. He also said he was going to be forced out of business since most of his practice is medicare, he will not be able to pay his bills. So he is going to bail out should this POS pass.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #47
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Being one who is near Medicare, I'm valuing the input from some pretty savvy people here. I, too, hope it remains within boundaries as to not be so political that it's removed.

Keep the good info coming, folks
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:34 PM   #48
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It seems to me that the moderators should not want to pull this as long as it remains civil, that is, no name calling, or fault finding. Just an exchange of information vital to the RV (and national) community.

Jim, I wonder about the comment about the Federal Gov--do I care if I pay more in taxes and less in health insurance fees or vice versa? Both intities control my health care or indeed control part of my life. My personal opinion is - I do not believe that there should be a profit motive in health care. Market forces do not always provide the optimum outcome for the individual.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:37 PM   #49
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Richard,

I agree and do not care which pocket they pick to take the money from as long as the combined total of my tax and health insurance premium pockets still have the same combined total left when they are done picking!

The absolute truth is that you can not insure 55 million more people without either spending a lot more money, raising the combined total paid for policy premiums and/or taxes or substantially reducing benefits.

The drive for profits has developed some pretty good treatments and cures, without that motivation, what would happen to that development? Early detection and treatment of breast cancer, colon cancer, prostate cancer, AIDs among a few have taken billions of dollars in research and development to cure, prolong and improve the quality of life. Without the motivation of profit, it will not take place.

I have heard both sides of the "Canadian Story" and was told a very profound one today by a friend who is Nurse. She has dual citizenship and told me the story of her best friend who is insured by the Canadian System. When this lady was younger, she had scoliosis (curvature) of her spine and had to have rods and pins placed to help straighten her spine and keep it from causing future problems. This past weak, one end of the rod and screws broke loose. She is in agony and at risk for potential loss of use of her limbs. They gave her narcotics and sent her home. They told her there is no risk of death and the waiting list is about 3 months to get an MRI. The Doctors can't operate without the guidance of the actual extent of the problem. My friend is on her way tonight to Canada and is arranging for an ambulance to transport her friend across the border to the good old USA to have the scan performed at a total cost including medical transportation of approximately $3,800.00.

To have our current system with the quality and access we have come to expect, while insuring an additional 55 million people will cost approximately an additional 20% on top of what we currently pay in total combined taxes and premiums. The US averages a total combined tax and insurance rate of about 50% (income, social security, Medicare, property, sales tax, gas tax, sin tax, drivers license, fees, etc.). The cost of the proposals requires that we spend a combined total of 70%.

The numbers are staggering and not feasible. We will absolutely see a "sea change" in the quality of our system. We absolutely will see rationing. We absolutely will not be happy with the outcome. I have been very lucky in life and can afford to pay my own way no matter the outcome, I will buy one of the go to the front of the line supplemental policies that will undoubtedly be offered. But what about the rest of the people who can't.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:46 PM   #50
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Richard,

I agree and do not care which pocket they pick to take the money from as long as the combined total of my tax and health insurance premium pockets still have the same combined total left when they are done picking!

The absolute truth is that you can not insure 55 million more people without either spending a lot more money, raising the combined total paid for policy premiums and/or taxes or substantially reducing benefits.

The drive for profits has developed some pretty good treatments and cures, without that motivation, what would happen to that development? Early detection and treatment of breast cancer, colon cancer, prostate cancer, AIDs among a few have taken billions of dollars in research and development to cure, prolong and improve the quality of life. Without the motivation of profit, it will not take place.

I have heard both sides of the "Canadian Story" and was told a very profound one today by a friend who is Nurse. She has dual citizenship and told me the story of her best friend who is insured by the Canadian System. When this lady was younger, she had scoliosis (curvature) of her spine and had to have rods and pins placed to help straighten her spine and keep it from causing future problems. This past weak, one end of the rod and screws broke loose. She is in agony and at risk for potential loss of use of her limbs. They gave her narcotics and sent her home. They told her there is no risk of death and the waiting list is about 3 months to get an MRI. The Doctors can't operate without the guidance of the actual extent of the problem. My friend is on her way tonight to Canada and is arranging for an ambulance to transport her friend across the border to the good old USA to have the scan performed at a total cost including medical transportation of approximately $3,800.00.

To have our current system with the quality and access we have come to expect, while insuring an additional 55 million people will cost approximately an additional 20% on top of what we currently pay in total combined taxes and premiums. The US averages a total combined tax and insurance rate of about 50% (income, social security, Medicare, property, sales tax, gas tax, sin tax, drivers license, fees, etc.). The cost of the proposals requires that we spend a combined total of 70%.

The numbers are staggering and not feasible. We will absolutely see a "sea change" in the quality of our system. We absolutely will see rationing. We absolutely will not be happy with the outcome. I have been very lucky in life and can afford to pay my own way no matter the outcome, I will buy one of the go to the front of the line supplemental policies that will undoubtedly be offered. But what about the rest of the people who can't.
The above might seem at least of SOMEWHAT lesser impact and importance when it relates to someone ELSE, SOMEWHERE else - but imagine if it's YOU, or someone YOU love and care for - THEN, it gets very important, very FAST!
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:15 PM   #51
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Yes you do have to pay a penalty for Medicare Part D Drug coverage and also for Part B if you don't sign up initially. Look at it this way. If you don't need any expensive drugs or Dr visits at age 65, you would not want to pay the premium. You would sign up later, if your costs go up. It makes sense you should pay more for signing up later. I would like to pay the life insurance premiums of an 18 year old but that ain't gonna happen either.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:27 PM   #52
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Myself, I'm one of those who currently has no insurance of any kind and is extremely concerned about the "must have insurance clause" that is in this bill.

In my industry, Information Technology, the job market has been in the tank since 1999 and hasn't really substantially improved since. What this means to those of us who are lower on the experience totem pole is that for 90% of the jobs currently open in the field you won't even be considered for an interview if you have less than 5-10 years field experience. Which is great, except, it appears that no one wants to higher a junior engineer so that they can get the experience.

The other option available is Contract work. In contract work, most times you're lucky enough to find a position that pays a living wage, forget benefits. Couple with this that most of these jobs tend to be located in high Cost-Of-living areas, and things just get more complicated.

A few of the contracting agencies offer an insurance package, which the contractor gets to pay the full premium out of their own pocket, usually to the tone of 1/3 to 1/2 of their monthly income, if they wish.

So, 9 times out of 10, most contractors go without the insurance in order to afford rent, food, gasoline, etc, and pray daily that they don't get seriously sick or injured.

The main concern for most of us is if this bill spells out a minimum level of insurance one must own. Currently, or least it used to be, the less expensive option for insurance was I believe called Major Medical, or Emergency Medical, something to that tone. It basically only covered you for extreme medical situations, but not for the regular doctors visits and what not. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:05 PM   #53
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Yes, in the past the type of insurance you are refereeing to was also commonly called catastrophic coverage. It did not cover Doctor visits, most tests, medications and treatments unless it was related to an emergency or major illness that required hospitalization and carried a high deductible.

I do not know what form the mandatory insurance verses penalty will take in the proposed legislation. It is my understanding that the entire proposed bill has yet to be disclosed or read by anyone other than the drafters, even though it has been voted on twice.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:09 PM   #54
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I was at my Cardiologist's office yesterday. I told him I would be needing a knee replacement soon. He told me I was unlikely to get it. I am 68, have beat prostate cancer, had 2 heart attacks and a quad bypass. He also said he was going to be forced out of business since most of his practice is medicare, he will not be able to pay his bills. So he is going to bail out should this POS pass.
In the local paper here in Spring Hill Fl it had an article that indicated Cardiologists would receive a 21 percent reduction of fees and that would go to giving a 7-8 percent raise to General Practice doctors so they can promote preventive medicine. Lots of Medicare seniors in FL with heart problems. So we will probably lose some of our Cardiologist if this holds up in the final bill.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:18 AM   #55
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Gov't will own hospitals and equipment inside walls. Should gov't decide not to repair and update machines, equipment, ratings will fall, hospitals will not be able to keep up and gov't doesn't have to budget for equipment failures. Hospital Doctor fees going down. How many doctors will work for lower fees? For how long? AMA recommends this vote? AARP supports it in that they get to keep monies from insurance policies endorsed by AARP. What do you bet by the time you pay for your policy, your going to quit eating favorite foods because your going to be poor in premium pay. We probably will do less miles in our RV's , cannot afford gas for the premiums of health insurance to pay. Insurance companies won't be able to cancel policies, but they sure can raise the rates any time they decide. No controls to stop that, so insurance companies think this a great deal for all. 31 million people get on insurance but 21 million after that still cannot afford it? I bet there is lots of joy everywhere over this plan.
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:17 AM   #56
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I was at my Cardiologist's office yesterday. I told him I would be needing a knee replacement soon. He told me I was unlikely to get it. I am 68, have beat prostate cancer, had 2 heart attacks and a quad bypass. He also said he was going to be forced out of business since most of his practice is medicare, he will not be able to pay his bills. So he is going to bail out should this POS pass.
as a retired nurse/nurse practitioner, i personally think doctors in america have been paid too much, i think that general practitioners and specialists, one should not be paid more than the other, i think pay should be based on their quality of care and not just having a m.d. walk into the room for five minutes and charge 125.00-250.00 dollars. i think doctors, hospitals in general do not want to just make a good living but they want to make a fortune. i think that this is the reason the average person cannot afford to go to a doctor or go to the hospital without insurance.
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