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Old 04-05-2016, 07:27 PM   #29
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Idiots happen...........
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Old 04-05-2016, 07:36 PM   #30
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This may shed some light on the topic.

RV-Dreams Journal: HUD Proposed Rule Clarifies Definition Of RVs For A Limited Purpose
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:33 PM   #31
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It is a political year and somebody is trying to stir up the pot even though it is not true.

Now there have been city ordinances for years that certain area's you can not just set up camp on a trailer or motor home.
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
It may not be discriminatory but it certainly demonstrates a lack of knowing the facts. I don't know of one fulltimer who wants to register to vote, that has any problem doing so. At least in the 3 prime fulltimer states of SD, TX, FL we register & vote just like everyone else. Maybe things are different there in the great state of OH, but in SD, TX and Fl we do get a Gov photo ID with our local address, its called a drivers lic. That same address gets us a library card, a state fishing lic, a CCW permit, social security, Medicare or VA benefits, state issued professional licenses, and even keeps the IRS happy.
Funny you mention South Dakota, there's a bill pending to change what defines a local address.
2016 Session - Bill History
Other states have restrictions too, NY and Massachusetts are very aggressive in actually checking the address actually can accommodate people. They are really after income for taxes more than voting rights. Also many problems with listing a P.O. Box as an address when you go to order something or register for a license, be it driver, fishing, hunting, etc.
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Old 04-09-2016, 07:06 PM   #33
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In most states, in order to vote, you need a 'government issued picture I.D. with a local address.' (at least in Ohio) A passport won't do because it doesn't have an address. My statement wasn't discriminatory, just a fact. Full timers have trouble getting a library card too.

This kind of 'slippery slope' fear mongering is the thing that should be offensive. I didn't believe it when they tried to sell the Vietnam war, '..if communists get one country, the rest will fall like dominos.'

I don't think a clarification of definitions of home types is a first step in banning all full timers. I've seen the same argument used about segregation, weapons, and countless other things people are 'against.'
If you believe your own first paragraph, you are saying that you feel that most full timers don't have driver's licenses. Do you really think this?
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:32 PM   #34
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If you believe your own first paragraph, you are saying that you feel that most full timers don't have driver's licenses. Do you really think this?
A driver's license with just a P.O. box won't fly - - - in Ohio for voting. I don't know about the rest of the states, but Wisconsin just went through a big hassle with picture I.D. voter registration. In general, Homeland Security and tax collectors are making it harder to be 'homeless' on the road. They want a firm residential address where you live and sleep. Many full timers use friend or family addresses to get credit cards and other things that require an address more than a P.O. box. Not exactly truthful, they could be in trouble with authorities if anyone bothered to check on them.

I feel very strongly about voting. When I was in an Indiana college, the voting age was reduced to 18, the year I turned 21. I had been emancipated from my parents for 3 years who lived in NJ where I had never spent more than 2 weeks at a time. The local county clerk refused to let me register in the county where I lived because I was a student. I had car registration, driver's license, was director of a 1200 people strong community volunteer service, worked for the YMCA, etc all in the county I had been refused to be allowed to register. I had to go to Federal court to get the clerk ordered to let me vote. That was set as a standard for college students across the Federal district.

On our campus of 18,000 students this law change resulted in less than 150 new student registering to vote. My teaching career was spent in Ohio. Each time our school district had a levy on the ballot, I would volunteer to knock on doors and give out literature. We had print-outs of registered voters. Walking down streets, I'd often have to skip 7-10 houses before I'd come to a home with a registered voter.

I doubt if full timers are any more involved in voting than the general population, which was my point in post #26 that was taken as a 'discriminatory judgmental statement.'
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Old 04-09-2016, 09:14 PM   #35
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Some "Important" people in "Important" desk jobs must drum up more "Important" new regulations to stop the tax base ( That is us ) from going mobile and not paying ever increasing: property taxes, water minimum usage fees, garbage fees, "special assessment fees", new tax levies...on & on.....
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:33 AM   #36
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This thread has inspired me to educate myself.

First off, I should say a couple items. I am an Army Veteran. I vote, in every election, local, state and national. I am usually registered as 'Unenrolled' here in Massachusetts, which in Connecticut where I used to live is 'Independent.'

I happen to be a pretty conservative political person, mostly libertarian on many social issues, but have no significant party affiliation.

I also served more than 7 years on the local Zoning Appeals Board, ran (unsuccessfully) for Selectman in my town, and had a local television show on Cable access that often included local politicians and political discussions for more than 5 years.

So, I am hardly non-political.

What I learned on this thread, is that if I were to give up my home and go full time, Massachusetts would be very unsupportive. Furthermore, without a residential address, I could not get or renew my driver's license. I would loose many of my rights including the right to vote in Massachusetts.

I do not and did not know the details of this situation before, and the prospect of loosing my ability to vote because of a housing choice is quite unacceptable.

Interestingly, Massachusetts does not require a photo ID to vote (and I think it should) but also will not allow you to vote if you live in your RV. Now, I do not have a huge problem in going around this issue, as I have many good friends whom I could 'lease' a permanent space from for residential purposes, even if I was not commonly there. But I am not a 'go around' the law kind of guy, and do not like being forced into that space.

Now I know there are far lesser screwed up places than Massachusetts to consider my home if I were to go full time with the MH. Still, it irks me.

And BFlin181, thank you for your response that inspired me to educate myself on this topic. It really caught me by surprise.
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Old 04-10-2016, 04:01 PM   #37
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I don't think American citizens should have to be tied to some particular state simply in order to go about their business. We need a national driver's license, for one thing. And people that wander about from state to state should pay only Federal income taxes and the sales and use taxes of whatever states they are in at a given time.

It's also reasonable that wanderers not participate in state and local elections. The electoral college should be abolished and election for president be by popular vote, thus those not tied to a state would still have a voice in a nationwide election. Or maybe those favoring the electoral college would buy the notion that wanderers be allowed to vote only for president and not for senators, House members and local officials.
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Old 04-10-2016, 04:50 PM   #38
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I don't think American citizens should have to be tied to some particular state simply in order to go about their business. We need a national driver's license, for one thing. And people that wander about from state to state should pay only Federal income taxes and the sales and use taxes of whatever states they are in at a given time.

It's also reasonable that wanderers not participate in state and local elections. The electoral college should be abolished and election for president be by popular vote, thus those not tied to a state would still have a voice in a nationwide election. Or maybe those favoring the electoral college would buy the notion that wanderers be allowed to vote only for president and not for senators, House members and local officials.
Wow, you're asking a lot from a government that can't even replace a Supreme Court Justice!

In our nation's infancy, most people were state (colony) oriented and the nation took a back seat. Our Constitution specifies what powers the national government has and the remaining powers are left to the states.

Right now, in most states you pay income taxes according to how much time you spend in the state. Here's a 128 page PDF on the permutations of the issue in NY state. https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2014/misc...lines_2014.pdf

That's just one state's regulations. Multiply that by the other 48 states (49 total since you can't drive to Hawaii) you could drive to in an RV and you can see being a full timer and moving about makes just dealing with income taxes very daunting.

Now add in some of the other things RVers deal with. If you register your RV in Texas, over a certain size you need a special endorsement on your driver's license. Other states have special requirements too. RV Driver's License Requirements

How about personal property tax? Some states charge you a percentage of the RV's value each year. If your RV is registered in that state, but you spend more than 6 months out of the state, should you pay all the taxes due or just a fraction?

It goes on and on, we live in a complicated society with many different over-lapping rules, taxes, and obligations. Some states are more lax than others on enforcement, they almost invite RVers to set up addresses in their state to avoid some of the more expensive states. Time will tell if this will continue or be an eliminated by new requirements.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:31 PM   #39
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This week's RV Travel Newsletter explains the situation clearly. RV Travel Newsletter: Apr. 9-15. Issue 737 | RV Travel

RVers' panic over HUD proposal unfounded
By Greg Illes
It's early April 2016, and the RV Internet is abuzz with gossip, rumor and (fearful) speculation concerning a soon-to-be-released regulatory revision from the HUD government agency that many RVers believed would prohibit full-time RVing. A quick search for "HUD RV" will turn up more threats and worries than a Republican presidential debate.
Quick summary: The rule benefits RVers and does not restrict residency. Here's why:
HUD is an acronym for Housing and Urban Development (you can read its mission statement here). As you can see at its website, HUD is responsible for many aspects of housing regulation in the U.S, too many to summarize here. But in particular, one of HUD's areas of authority is the setting of construction standards for housing.
Recently, HUD published a rule-making proposal in which the wording was perhaps a tad obscure; more proof that lawyers are a distinct species from Homo sapiens. The regulation has to do with using RVs and "tiny houses" as residences, and required some placarding to the effect that the units were not intended for permanent residency. The full text is available here, but few will have the fortitude to read through it or understand its intent and implications.
The rule sponsored a firestorm of reaction from people who thought their RVs would become "illegal" under the revised regulation But it was a false alarm. In fact, some of the furor even seems to have been promulgated for sensationalism's sake.
The rule is endorsed by the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) and should not be a cause for RVers' worry.
Detailed Discussions We have limited space here, but you can read much more about the ruling and its background in some other articles.
One of the better reviews of the whole fracas can be found in the excellent Snopes site, where (with their usual diligence), the writers explore details and concerns surrounding the regulation. You can read that here to get a thorough understanding, and we'll summarize things below.
Another important communication to review is the statement by the RV Industry Association (and others) enthusiastically endorsing the HUD regulation.
And here is another very readable analysis from RV Dreams, with some additional references, providing more clarification and insight.
So what's all the fuss about? Essentially, the confusion and concern arose from the wording in the regulation about living in an RV full-time. The phrase "not intended for" permanent residency was never intended to indicate "not permitted for" permanent residency. In fact, the regulation is an important exemption for RV manufacturers, which permits them to create their products independently from the restrictions for fixed housing. In particular, the rule is intended to differentiate RV "housing" from mobile home housing. This is why the RVIA is not only supporting the rule, but actually participated in drafting it.
OK, but what about safety? HUD, and the RVIA, are trying to more explicitly draw the line between fixed and mobile habitats. HUD is clearly responsible for regulating the quality and safety of fixed homes (including mobile homes) and RVIA is, and wants to be, responsible for similar issues on RV residences.
So can you still live full-time in your RV? This is, and always has been, largely a local regulation issue. Across our vast country there are an equally vast number of regulatory variations on who can live where, and in what. If you look carefully, regulation seems always to be a matter of where the RV is parked not how long (or permanently) anybody has been living in it. And realistically speaking, what conceivable government agency is going to try to keep track of how many days any of us spend living in our RVs? Even Big Brother doesn't have that many resources.
On balance, it's easy to see that there have been some overreactions to the ruling. Some may even have been intentional, for the sake of hits and clicks on a website. But clearly, the support of RVIA, and analyses by objective reviewers, shows us the actuality of the situation.
LINKS SUMMARY
For easy reference, here are the links mentioned above in the article text:
The ruling
HUD mission
Snopes review
RVIA statement
RV Dreams article
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:34 PM   #40
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That SD bill has long since been withdrawn by its creator. One senator, who was pissed off at the fulltimers in Pennington county SD for helping defeat his "wheel tax", proposed that new bill to get back at us. The back lash from the entire state was so quick and strong that he quickly withdrew his own bill from consideration; and not one other senator supported it.

Yes, many states have restrictions, that's why the big 3 of SD, TX and FL are so popular with fulltimers. Those 3 states go out of their way to support fulltimers who use mail forwarding addresses. Many state laws were not written to allow for the situation where no fixed residential street address exists. However, voting is not one of them. Remember even if you live in a cardboard box under the 10th St bridge, federal voting rights laws say you can't be denied the right to vote.

You keep referring to PO Boxes, but very few fulltimers use PO Boxes for their fulltime address. We use professional mail forwarding services that give us a street address not all that different from any apartment or condo address.
514 Americas Way #99999, Box Elder, SD 57719

No one locally in SD, statewide or federal has ever denied me any service, permit or license for using such an address.

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Funny you mention South Dakota, there's a bill pending to change what defines a local address.
2016 Session - Bill History
Other states have restrictions too, NY and Massachusetts are very aggressive in actually checking the address actually can accommodate people. They are really after income for taxes more than voting rights. Also many problems with listing a P.O. Box as an address when you go to order something or register for a license, be it driver, fishing, hunting, etc.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:13 PM   #41
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Storm in a tea cup or not, what's great is members sharing, supporting, and being ready to unite. Thanks to all the great post.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:49 PM   #42
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That SD bill has long since been withdrawn by its creator. One senator, who was pissed off at the fulltimers in Pennington county SD for helping defeat his "wheel tax", proposed that new bill to get back at us.
The bill was only introduced February 6, 2016, so our definitions of 'long since been withdrawn' differ quite a bit.

Also, if one legislator in one state proposes such a bill, the lemming-like nature of politicians mean more such bills will be proposed in more states.

I'm surprised at the vitriol aimed my way over raising the issues involved in being a full-timer. Folks seem to toss it off as 'no problem,' but in reality it can be quite complex and borderline illegal in some cases.

The following is a list of just a few links discussing aspects of going full time. Seems like not real clear law about many of these issues. It's just something I think folks should be aware of.

Full Time RVer - How To Get Your Mail, Vote & Driver's License | Technomadia

https://everywhereonce.com/2011/11/1...lobal-citizen/

Residency, Mail & Insurance as RV'ers

Changing State Residency - A Guide for the RV Owner
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