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Old 06-06-2012, 09:36 AM   #57
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Mac's economic plan is similar to the one General Motors used in the 70's.

If you wanted to buy a starter for your Cadillac, it costs 3X that of a Chevrolet starter; even though they were one and the same starter, one was was boxed under a Cadillac part number and the other under a Chevrolet number.

Mac will tell you that theirs is so much better, but in reality, while the cosmetics on the outside are much better, but internally they are Chevrolets...........
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #58
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the only real downside to ubuntu/linux is that you have to "add-on" any apps that you need;
...and thousands of (free) apps are available to "add-on" with one mouse click from a built in software repository. And all those apps get updated and upgraded automatically as soon as an upgrade is available. Doesn't sound like a downside to me.
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...plus since it is open source programming, "anyone" is allowed to write apps or modifications for it. It is a very stable and well written system; but, even it has its limits.
Open source is a plus, not a minus. All modifications to the linux kernel (and all other open source apps) go through a rigorous peer review process before they are allowed into the released code. Anyone can SUBMIT modifications, but those modifications have to be reviewed and accepted by the white hats before they are included in the product or allowed to be released. The open source model is more secure because of this process.

In many cases, the open source community finds and fixes vulnerabilities before the bad guys write malware to exploit them. Whereas, the closed source model is a more reactive model. They only fix stuff that has already been exploited and shown to be a security hole.
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As for ta previous poster bragging on Macs......internally they are ALL the same HDD's, chipsets (they used to be different, now they use the same chipset), mobo's, etc. Admit it or not the only real difference is the Software and the quality control at the "build point"..............If I could get a Mac OS, I could wipe out my HP Probook and install Mac, and would have just as goo of a computer as your Mac.
Mac hardware failure rate is the same as any other Intel based platform, because it's all the same hardware, as you have said. Apple charges a premium to pay for US based support network, its storefronts where uers of apple products can take their devices for friendly, english speaking, support. This is worth the premium for some. OSX is based on a BSD kernel which is an open source product, and very similar to Linux. So, OSX enjoys the same security advantages of a Unix-like operating system as Linux does. They (OSX and Linux) are very similar under the hood.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #59
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I don't want to hijack this thread (and maybe my post should be moved), but I have a related question.... I'm a happy win7 user, but am getting tired of MS always thinking they can boost me 'up' to their next big deal; so I'm thinking more of going to Linux. I've read some interesting posts here, but I'm wondering if there is any downside to Linux.... Obviously, I have some research to do, and I'll be happy to do it, but I'm wondering if any of you savvy users can tell me any horror stories about Linux? Especially in terms of transferring files with full functionality, cause I've been accumulating stuff since 1983. Thanks.
Linux is not for sissys.

The downside to linux is it, to a greater degree than MS or Apple, requires you know something about your hardware. It can be finicky. Sometimes there may be problems that will require you to use a command line interface to fix. You have to be willing to be intimately involved in the maintenance of your PC. You have to be willing to interact with the linux community for support. Geek squad will not know how to fix it. The Mac store is not available to you. Your ISP's support number will not be able to help you get on the internet. Its all on you.

The upside is, you get an incredibly stable, secure, and visually attractive operating system, with upgrades and updates forever, with a huge repository of open source applications that are every bit as good (and some are better) than the commercial offerings, and can be installed with one click from your "start" menu ...for free...

Here's an older demo of the interface (current version is 12.04):
Ubuntu 10.04 Compiz hard test FULL HD - YouTube
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:26 AM   #60
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I "had" to buy either an iPod, iPad or iPhone to fly my Parrot Quadracopter. I also use my iPod to listen to music on my car-to-car radio headset in my sand rail. If I use my desktop to upload the music and later want to add more to it, I have to use the same desktop to do so. If I use my laptop, it erases everything that was installed with my desktop. That is just BS. It's my device, let me do what I want with it.
I'm far more stubborn than you (must be the Irish in me). If I had to buy anything special (especially if by Apple) to get anything to work, I wouldn't get it, period.

Before I get flamed (it's hot enough in "Aridzona" already), Apple does make good to excellent products and for people who need, or just want, to accept what is thrown at them or be taken care of all the way, they are a good choice. I personally do not like, nor will tolerate, Apple's walled garden, high prices, and limited product choices. I also do not like their business model on many products (rapid planned obsolescence).
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:35 AM   #61
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"Doesn't sound like a downside to me." It's not really a downside, but to some people who are not real "savvy" it would seem like a hassle to them. I like UBUNTU, and have used it for about 6 years now. But, being in the computer business, it is imperative that I keep up as much as my little brain allows.




You know this really is a good thread, with good input, from good people....even though it started on Windows 8..........
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #62
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Mac's economic plan is similar to the one General Motors used in the 70's.

If you wanted to buy a starter for your Cadillac, it costs 3X that of a Chevrolet starter; even though they were one and the same starter, one was was boxed under a Cadillac part number and the other under a Chevrolet number...
Ford was the same way. I had a 1 ton truck that used the same Spicer u-joint as the LTDs and the half shafts on the rear ends of Corvettes and Jags. The Galaxy was the cheapest, then the truck was the next higher price, then the 'vette, then the Jag.

I couldn't believe the price of parts for a Kenmore washing machine so I tried a Whirlpool parts house (back then, Kenmores were rebranded Whirlpools). They didn't have a crossreference list but, by looking at an exploded diagram of a washer, I could point at a part and the parts guy would bring it out so we could do show and tell on my dead part. Got it in one every time and I saved 50% over Kenmore.

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...Mac will tell you that theirs is so much better, but in reality, while the cosmetics on the outside are much better, but internally they are Chevrolets...........
That isn't completely true. Macs are better than many, if not most, Windows machines because they use better parts. The same parts are available for Windows machine but, to cut prices, not everyone uses the better parts. A Windows machine that is equal in quality to a Mac will cost less, however.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #63
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And it's pretty much stock. I've seen twin turbo LSx ones putting out over 1100 HP.

"pretty much stock"......as an old racer,.........that can cover a lot of territory
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:45 AM   #64
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Linux is not for sissys.

The downside to linux is it, to a greater degree than MS or Apple, requires you know something about your hardware. It can be finicky. Sometimes there may be problems that will require you to use a command line interface to fix. You have to be willing to be intimately involved in the maintenance of your PC. You have to be willing to interact with the linux community for support. Geek squad will not know how to fix it. The Mac store is not available to you. Your ISP's support number will not be able to help you get on the internet. Its all on you.

The upside is, you get an incredibly stable, secure, and visually attractive operating system, with upgrades and updates forever, with a huge repository of open source applications that are every bit as good (and some are better) than the commercial offerings, and can be installed with one click from your "start" menu ...for free...

Here's an older demo of the interface (current version is 12.04):
Ubuntu 10.04 Compiz hard test FULL HD - YouTube
From what I've heard, Geek Squad can't fix much of anything.

All seriousness aside, what you say about Linux is true but not everyone fits into that scenario (including me).
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:49 AM   #65
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... I personally do not like, nor will tolerate, Apple's walled garden, high prices, and limited product choices. I also do not like their business model on many products (rapid planned obsolescence).
Apple's model is solid. Create a rabid fanbase through marketing, have a robust support network, charge a premium, obsolete quickly. The rabid fanbase is always hungry to have the latest/greatest iGadget.

Microsoft's model is more complex, but equally genious. Early on, Microsoft's plan was to be THE operating system installed on every PC. Once they achieved that 90%+ dominance, their model shifted to drive upgrades. They do this primarily through forward incompatibility and constantly degrading performance.

It is possible to get bang for buck with either platform, if you know how. Apple and MS both make good products that are THE BEST for given applications, but if anyone thinks the commercial software companies have any interest in producing a stable products that will last forever, you're kidding yourself. They survive on sales. They do what they have to to drive sales. That means forcing you to upgrade, period.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:49 AM   #66
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No takers on the DOS 3.1 comment???
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:01 AM   #67
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You are right here
That isn't completely true. Macs are better than many, if not most, Windows machines because they use better parts. The same parts are available for Windows machine but, to cut prices, not everyone uses the better parts. A Windows machine that is equal in quality to a Mac will cost less, however.

Manufacturing processes are this: manufactured components are normally tested randomly in a "lot" or production run. This means that "every so often" a component is pulled and tested to see if it is valid; This is the normal procedure for almost all manufacturing in the world. The other side of the coin is "every" component in the process is tested as it is made. If Seagate is making hard drives, they will test at random, unless the "buyer" wants to pay the extra cost of individual testing and verification as the process goes along. It is easy to see how this can be disastrous to your final costs of your product. It is the process that Mac has chosen, and this is one of the reasons for higher end costs. Howevr, quality control measures in place with ISO rated companies is such that it is really not necessary as the amount overall of units that fail is really minor.

What "kills" companies like HP, for example, is several years ago, they adapted a graphics card to the motherboard of the Touchpad laptop that was not part of the original design; in order to use the graphics card that they already had in inventory, it was adapted and soldered to the mobo with low-temp solder; the low temp was used to prevent damage to surrounding components as this was a retrofit mod. End results were that it worked for a while. As system temps increased, the solder began to liquify thus opening the contact point, and as a result screen failure. Ironically the cure for this at the street level was to turn the laptop over (while it is turned on), and insert a paper clip into the cooling fan so that it stops and the laptop will heat up for about ten minutes......as it heats up the solder again liquifies and "reflows" down into the contact socket and as you let it cool, it reconnects the graphics card. These are the kinds of things we say ......can bite you in the rear

If you ever hear of anyone doing a "reflow repair" this is what they are doing...........
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:02 AM   #68
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No takers on the DOS 3.1 comment???

DOS 3.1 was a pig. DOS 3.3 was the real deal, and far superior to any of the 4.x offerings.

I began my 'paying' IT career around the DOS 3.x timeframe, after having been a computer geek for many years prior. My first computer (which I still have) was a Tandy Model I, with the coveted 16K memory upgrade module, and two 180K single sided 5.25" floppy drives.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:05 AM   #69
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No takers on the DOS 3.1 comment???


That takes me back to Radio Shack TRS-80 days
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:19 AM   #70
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Ramblin, it that anything like the Linux in the link you posted?

By almost stock, it is an LS1 with a LS6 cam, shorty headers and my own custom intake and exhaust plumbing. The computer has be modified to delete the alarm and emission garbage.

If threads didn't go off topic, I wouldn't have learned half as much as I have on this and other forums.
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