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Old 09-18-2012, 12:19 AM   #15
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Mr d I see you are from my home town of Vancouver I was up that way this summer couldn't believe how much it had changed in 55 years.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:10 PM   #16
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The last trip out west, I tried the mid-grade gas instead of the bottom stuff for a few fill ups. The mileage was not a good test as the wind was Terrible out there and back. Some people say it's a waste of $$ due to the computer compensating for fuel octane. But it did make a difference in power. (old hot rodder here) The way the computer manages that is to back off the timing when you get pinging/knocking . That just means its protecting the engine, but also Less power... IMO... Guess it's a trade off... Seems like real gas would be SO much better to have when you plan on storing the mh for say over the winter.
you realize the octane isnt the problem? Its the ethanol content in the fuel. There is a dramatic difference in mpg on the highway with non ethanol fuels.
A 200hp motorhome engine with a 20% power reduction is pretty significant.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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nothing is losing 20% of it's power from fuel with 10% ethanol in it. You are losing 20% of 10%, that equals 2%, not enough to notice IMHO....

As for the 2.3 times more, that is a constant to get the correct mixture, to burn all the incoming oxygen and not run lean. Our modern computer controlled engines take that in stride, no problem.

As for the 85 octane fuel out west, that's purely a function of altitude. There is simply less air up there... that means less compression in the cylinder, and that equals a lower octane requirement.

Easy to mix these things up...
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #18
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nothing is losing 20% of it's power from fuel with 10% ethanol in it. You are losing 20% of 10%, that equals 2%, not enough to notice IMHO....

As for the 2.3 times more, that is a constant to get the correct mixture, to burn all the incoming oxygen and not run lean. Our modern computer controlled engines take that in stride, no problem.

As for the 85 octane fuel out west, that's purely a function of altitude. There is simply less air up there... that means less compression in the cylinder, and that equals a lower octane requirement.

Easy to mix these things up...


Was just going to point out the same..

Only 2% BTU drop in Ethanol fuels, and thats if it has the full '10%' mixed in. AND, in modern cars with knock sensors, the timing is advanced to help compensate anyways..

And, the octane requirement is dropped by 1 for every 1000ft in density altitude, so the fuels out West naturally have a lower octane requirement..
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:37 PM   #19
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Mr d I see you are from my home town of Vancouver I was up that way this summer couldn't believe how much it had changed in 55 years.
Yep, I was born here in 1947. One youngster told me the hospital I was born at had NEVER been a hospital and I didn't know what I was talking about!
High School I graduated from is gone. Cascade Park used to be open pasture. Stores all over the place. They dredged Vancouver Lake and put in a flushing channel so it's no longer a backwater. And the traffic is terrible going to or coming from Portland!
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #20
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nothing is losing 20% of it's power from fuel with 10% ethanol in it. You are losing 20% of 10%, that equals 2%, not enough to notice IMHO....

As for the 2.3 times more, that is a constant to get the correct mixture, to burn all the incoming oxygen and not run lean. Our modern computer controlled engines take that in stride, no problem.

As for the 85 octane fuel out west, that's purely a function of altitude. There is simply less air up there... that means less compression in the cylinder, and that equals a lower octane requirement.

Easy to mix these things up...


If you are out west and you use the 85 octane you may find that your motor run better on gas blended for altitude. We have been all over the country and have used 10% anytime we can get it but sometimes when we use unblended fuel I can tell no difference in performance or mileage. Some states like Nebraska have both but the 10% is blended with regular fuel and it ends up being 89 octane and it out preforms non blended both in power and mileage. I use 10% in our Honda and Generac generators, outboard motors and lawn mowers with no ill affects just clean fuel systems .

Denny
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:11 PM   #21
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MrD I was born there, Vancouver , in 1946. Graduated from Evergreen high school, and Clark college. I have a daughter who lives in St. Helen's , ore. As. Teenager we used to cruise main street like the movie American Grafitte, the good old days
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:50 PM   #22
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We have a few select stations here that sell Real gasoline. DW tried it a couple times in her new Honda car, but never really noticed a mileage increase either.(I'm supprised, buts thats her deal) A fact is it takes more alcohol (a LOT) to make the same power as gasoline. Makes sense to me that you felt a difference. Not to mention alcohol sucks up water... Lets eat the corn,, not burn it.... IMO... Thanks for posting this baraff as I need all the power I can get with a 350 in a class A ...

There is less BTUs in gas with ethanol over pure gas. Alcohol has less BTUs than gas.

Those who have cars that can burn E85. If the price is not lower than ethanol (E10) pass it up. you will lose 26% mileage. That 26% is from memory. It could be 28%.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:40 AM   #23
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We have a few select stations here that sell Real gasoline. DW tried it a couple times in her new Honda car, but never really noticed a mileage increase either.(I'm supprised, buts thats her deal) A fact is it takes more alcohol (a LOT) to make the same power as gasoline. Makes sense to me that you felt a difference. Not to mention alcohol sucks up water... Lets eat the corn,, not burn it.... IMO... Thanks for posting this baraff as I need all the power I can get with a 350 in a class A ...

There is less BTUs in gas with ethanol over pure gas. Alcohol has less BTUs than gas.

Those who have cars that can burn E85. If the price is not lower than ethanol (E10) pass it up. you will lose 26% mileage. That 26% is from memory. It could be 28%.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:44 PM   #24
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nothing is losing 20% of it's power from fuel with 10% ethanol in it. You are losing 20% of 10%, that equals 2%, not enough to notice IMHO....

As for the 2.3 times more, that is a constant to get the correct mixture, to burn all the incoming oxygen and not run lean. Our modern computer controlled engines take that in stride, no problem.

As for the 85 octane fuel out west, that's purely a function of altitude. There is simply less air up there... that means less compression in the cylinder, and that equals a lower octane requirement.

Easy to mix these things up...
youre assuming lots there... like for example that the maximum blend is 10%. Ive taken samples from a few different stations... lowest I found for 87 oct fuels was 8%. A couple had mixtures of 12%+.

My chassis was produced in 2004. A hair before the full barage of "ethanol" laced fuels were common place. I have a set of plugs removed from my rig at 31k miles. Those plugs are supposed to be good for 100k. They would not have made it another year. My fuel filter was absolutely trashed... looked like I was using rusty water to fuel the engine. I wont even bother with the "small engine" issues ethanol causes.
Your supposition that its only a 2% reduction is laughable.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:46 PM   #25
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Sorry for double post. Computer hiccuped.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:57 PM   #26
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One US gallon of gasoline contains 114,000 BTU of energy; depending on the time of year, and depending on what is in the gasoline. It is getting harder to find gasoline's that does not contain 5 to 10% of Ethanol. Ethanol is ethyl alcohol; the kind of alcohol in beverages; beer, whiskey, bourbon, vodka, cocktails, etc.. It takes one and a half US gallons of ethanol to equal the energy in one US gallon of gasoline; the reason... because ethanol only has 76,100 BTU's of energy per gallon. Less energy means less miles per gallon. In 2007 George W. Bush made it possible for gas stations to sell Gasohol (E10) without labeling the pumps; in other words, you may not know alcohol is in the gas. Ever wonder where your gas mileage went?

Gasoline's blended with Ethanol will lower MPG in most engines. The EPA says Fuel efficiency can decrease by 1.5 to 3% but reports of 40 % are not unheard of. In winter, you get less mileage out of a tank of gas; we waste a lot of gas warming up our vehicles, but what about trips? Winter gasoline contains less BTUs per gallon, 112, 500; if you are using 100% gasoline (non-ethanol). A lot of States no longer sell 100% gasoline it at the pumps. They choose Ethanol in the gasoline as a way to meet the Clean Air Act emissions standard. If you have a vehicle that was made before 1990, it is most likely not compatible with alcohol in fuels. Alcohol deteriorates the gaskets and seals that touch the fuel will fail. Alcohol affects the engines timing;* makes the engine work harder. Many engine manufacturers prohibit the use of alcohol in the fuel; it is not just cars and trucks; industrial engines, generators, lawnmowers, weed eaters; all gasoline powered engines are affected.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:50 PM   #27
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Not supposition.. 2% of the BTUs is lost. Only 2% at max.

And that doesnt count the increased timing that can be achieved to make up for the loss..
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:28 PM   #28
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youre assuming lots there... like for example that the maximum blend is 10%. Ive taken samples from a few different stations... lowest I found for 87 oct fuels was 8%. A couple had mixtures of 12%+.

My chassis was produced in 2004. A hair before the full barage of "ethanol" laced fuels were common place. I have a set of plugs removed from my rig at 31k miles. Those plugs are supposed to be good for 100k. They would not have made it another year. My fuel filter was absolutely trashed... looked like I was using rusty water to fuel the engine. I wont even bother with the "small engine" issues ethanol causes.
Your supposition that its only a 2% reduction is laughable.
'fraid I was only correcting the math of the previous poster, who said a 20% loss of power...

We've had 5% ethanol in our fuel here in Illinois for 40 years, and it's been up to 10% for the last decade or more. It's really not enough to hurt anything, and some say it has benefits, including better knock resistance which allows for more ignition timing advance as well as higher compression ratios.

Everyone of course is entitled to their own opinions as well as creative mathematics and oddly calibrated "butt-dynos" but for me, I'll put the horrors of gasahol in the same circular file as the claims of 10+ mpg from any 33,000 pound GVWR motorhome.
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