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Old 09-21-2012, 11:40 AM   #29
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The ethanol has about 20% less heat content per gallon of fuel...thus less available energy and lower fuel economy. Our food supply should not be used for fuel... End of discussion.

Ken
Yup! Have to pay 20-30 a gallon for 91 octane non-ethanol gasoline for the small engines. Can't get 87 octane non-ethanol around here. We're getting screwed for sure.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:48 PM   #30
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Quite frankly as stated at the beginning, Eat Corn, Burn Gasoline!
The Feds can shove Ethonol,,, the whole deal is costing us while fattening someones pocket.
In my personal vehicle I did notice the difference in gas mileage when I could get pure gasoline. I'd really like to see what it would do in the motorhome.
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:16 PM   #31
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They call this "Green Energy".
The only thing Green about it is the GreenBacks from the Taxpayer it costs to produce it and the extra GreenBacks the consumer puts out due to the lack of BTU's.
Don't get me started.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:30 PM   #32
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'fraid I was only correcting the math of the previous poster, who said a 20% loss of power...

We've had 5% ethanol in our fuel here in Illinois for 40 years, and it's been up to 10% for the last decade or more. It's really not enough to hurt anything, and some say it has benefits, including better knock resistance which allows for more ignition timing advance as well as higher compression ratios.

Everyone of course is entitled to their own opinions as well as creative mathematics and oddly calibrated "butt-dynos" but for me, I'll put the horrors of gasahol in the same circular file as the claims of 10+ mpg from any 33,000 pound GVWR motorhome.

right... not enough to hurt anything. The usual canned response from a corn belt resident.
Dont need to skew numbers like a CPA from Arthur Anderson to realize ethanol does not work well in my vehicles.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:54 PM   #33
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Your supposition that its only a 2% reduction is laughable.
As was mentioned it's not supposition, it's physics. A 10% concentration of ethanol alone is not going to be seat-of-the-pants detectable. It is possible that there could be some interaction with the fueling system on older vehicles that might result in some issues, but my guess is that the difference perceived in the OP is perhaps more placebo than anything else. The only thing I have noticed with regard to ethanol fuels is that they seem to be less stable in storage and need to be cycled within a few months at max or there may be running problems.

BTW I'm not in favor of ethanol mandates as I think they're bad policy for a number of reasons, just trying to be objective as to the actual effects.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:16 PM   #34
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As was mentioned it's not supposition, it's physics. A 10% concentration of ethanol alone is not going to be seat-of-the-pants detectable. It is possible that there could be some interaction with the fueling system on older vehicles that might result in some issues, but my guess is that the difference perceived in the OP is perhaps more placebo than anything else. The only thing I have noticed with regard to ethanol fuels is that they seem to be less stable in storage and need to be cycled within a few months at max or there may be running problems.

BTW I'm not in favor of ethanol mandates as I think they're bad policy for a number of reasons, just trying to be objective as to the actual effects.
I am the OP. When I filled up with "real gas", it was at the tail end of a 4000 mile trip. I know the difference between power and lack of power, there was no "placebo" effect.
My V10 is a 2004, built when engines ran on gas, not food. It was designed to run on gas. Perhaps today's engines are designed to run on ethanol but older engines were not.
That said, I did not notice any significant mileage increase but the power increase was definitely there and quite noticeable. It also ran smoother and quieter, something else I most definitely noticed.
Try a tankful if you can find it, you might be surprised.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:28 PM   #35
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I hear the EPA has or will allow a 15 % blend.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:46 AM   #36
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I hear the EPA has or will allow a 15 % blend.
Im pretty sure if every end user submitted random pump samples you would find a scary percentage of retailers have already been exceeding advertised blends.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:36 PM   #37
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I am the OP. When I filled up with "real gas", it was at the tail end of a 4000 mile trip. I know the difference between power and lack of power, there was no "placebo" effect.
My V10 is a 2004, built when engines ran on gas, not food. It was designed to run on gas. Perhaps today's engines are designed to run on ethanol but older engines were not.
That said, I did not notice any significant mileage increase but the power increase was definitely there and quite noticeable. It also ran smoother and quieter, something else I most definitely noticed.
Try a tankful if you can find it, you might be surprised.
Again, there is no difference.

10% ethanol blends have been used in the cornbelt states for 35 years!
My lawnmower cannot tell the difference.
ANY odb2 compliant, 1996 or newer gasoling engine CANNOT tell the difference. Really.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #38
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Definitely a difference in power and mileage in my 8.1 Workhorse motorhome. Several years ago when the cornbelt states were the only ones using 10% alcohol blend in their gas, I experienced it first hand the first time I used it crossing Iowa and South Dakota on my return trip from Washington DC to California. A near 1mpg drop in mileage, and very noticeable increase in down shifts on small grades from regular 87 octane gasoline.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:54 AM   #39
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Real difference

Tow vehicle was a 2006 toyota 4-Runner V8 (same engine as early Tundra), RV was a 2011 Jayco GFlight 21. Definitely noticed at least a 10% improvement in mileage and power with the "Real" gas. This was based on the trip computer and mileage minder in the vehicle. I even noticed that if I filled up at a half tank, it would be about 5% better. It did however crack (stainless tube headers) both exhaust manifolds, which Toyota replaced under warranty. Now towing with an "11 F150 - have not been able to get enough "real" gas to test with this vehicle, but it's (302 motor) doing 10% better than the Toyota did with 10% alcohol.

Computers control every thing now, and it's amazing how those little changes add up. I love how when I start out and clear the computer, and as we go down the first mountain, the mileage jumps up to 99.9 mpg!
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:06 AM   #40
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There are several web sites that list where you can buy gasoline with no ethanol. One is buyrealgas.com. There are others. Around here all Union 76 stations sell only ethanol free gas.

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Old 09-30-2012, 11:21 AM   #41
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Corn in grocery store, 3 for $1 (when on sale). Hmm! One Dozen = $4.

Strange, that it's the same amount of money for a dozen ears of corn as it is for 1 gallon of gas, or is it?

Math question of the day. How many ears of corn does it take to make 10% of a gallon (6.4 oz) of ethanol?

I really like ears of corn, but I like to travel also, so the eating of corn takes second place.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:04 PM   #42
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Sweet corn is the edible type corn and field corn is the stuff for ethanol.

It takes about 60 to 70 ears of corn to make bushel of shelled corn (sorta)
A bushel of shelled corn makes about 21 pints of ethanol. There's about a good swallow short of a pint in each gallon of gasohol. So there's about a 4 alarm nasty hangover with 4 degrees of difficulty (pukes and the runs) in 10 gallons of gasohol.

What was the question again?
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