Community Forums

Dwight · 05-03-2012, 02:21 AM

While we wait for the next starter report-

Winnebeater & Eddie Foy should go back to #115 & #116 and read SLOWLY.
The positive cable is disconnected and the test light is connected in line BETWEEN the positive cable and the positive battery terminal. READING 101

Dunner · 05-03-2012, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight

While we wait for the next starter report-

Winnebeater & Eddie Foy should go back to #115 & #116 and read SLOWLY.
The positive cable is disconnected and the test light is connected in line BETWEEN the positive cable and the positive battery terminal. READING 101

Are you still saying the light bulb will burn out if you put it between the positive battery post and the positive lead and there is a short/grd or the key is turned to activate the starter? Like this:

+
post----light-----cable-----starter/grd -

RonS1985 · 05-03-2012, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight

While we wait for the next starter report-

Winnebeater & Eddie Foy should go back to #115 & #116 and read SLOWLY.
The positive cable is disconnected and the test light is connected in line BETWEEN the positive cable and the positive battery terminal. READING 101

Now..now...play nice boys. I'm just trying to fix my RV to take my 9yo camping again. I'm not trying to start a forum war.

Dunner · 05-03-2012, 06:11 AM

Put down the java and get your butt under the MH and replace that starter... now, and stop

Winnebeater · 05-03-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight

While we wait for the next starter report-

Winnebeater & Eddie Foy should go back to #115 & #116 and read SLOWLY.
The positive cable is disconnected and the test light is connected in line BETWEEN the positive cable and the positive battery terminal. READING 101

I read very well, thank you. In post #115 he was suggesting to use a test light to find a short circuit and not testing a working load. At this point in the thread we did not fully understand when the battery was melting. I was also assuming since he is a novice at these kinds of repairs that he did not have the tools to diagnose necessarily like I would. I am only commenting because I want make sure that accurate information is given. I am very proficient at diagnosing electrical problems. My weapons of choice are normally a lab scope, multimeter or power probe. I have however done extensive diagnosis' with a test light and have never had a bulb burn out while diagnosing a short. While testing for a short you are simply completing a simple circuit with the bulb in the test light being the working load of that circuit. If you are testing the circuit while the starter is turning over then the starter is now the working load and the test light now becomes a fuse and would burn out. I apologize if my original comment to your post was offensive that was not my intention. As RonS1985 stated he just wants to take his kid camping, I am just trying to help him diagnose the issue quickly and efficiently.

Dunner · 05-03-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight

While we wait for the next starter report-
Winnebeater & Eddie Foy should go back to #115 & #116 and read SLOWLY.
The positive cable is disconnected and the test light is connected in line BETWEEN the positive cable and the positive battery terminal. READING 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnebeater

If you are testing the circuit while the starter is turning over then the starter is now the working load and the test light now becomes a fuse and would burn out.

Maybe I don't understand what you are saying.
What happens when I press the start button?

RonS1985 · 05-03-2012, 04:32 PM

You guys crack me up. Well, took the starter off the RV. The first thing I noticed was the positive wire wasn't tightened down. Me dumbass! When I got it down I could have sworn...not positive...but just maybe I saw the positive cable touching the smaller unused post on the solenoid. If it was I don't know if that would have given me my problem. Anyway, I took my other starter and the one I took off and rebuilt one newer one out of them. It has a new solenoid anyway. I put it back on and gave it a shot. My battery was too dead. Darn! I was also too low on gas in my van to jump it so I'll have to go back tomorrow. I did notice something different. According to Einstein different is good. When I turned the key to start I heard a familiar, but not heard from in awhile, noise under the driver's seat. I'll get some gas and try again tomorrow.

Midniteoyl · 05-03-2012, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunner

Maybe I don't understand what you are saying.
What happens when I press the start button?

Dave78Chief · 05-03-2012, 06:47 PM

Dunner,
Hate to say it but in that drawing the test light will act more like a fusible link and blow real quick because the starter will attempt to draw way to much current through the circuit.

Dave

Dunner · 05-03-2012, 07:31 PM

Has anybody actually tried this?

For one, There wasn't enough current through the 1156 bulb to draw up the solenoid. The light just got brighter.

I laid the + cable on the + post and turned on all the lights, ignition and fuel pump. It was drawing over 34 amps(Thanks Dave). With the 1156 light in series with the + post and + cable, I quickly lifted the cable from the post and the light just lit and everything else went off.

I went from the hot +12V side of the solenoid to the run side of the starter motor with a jumper wire and it spun the starter motor and the wire got hot fast. I did the same with the 1156 test light and it just lit. Motor didn't even try to turn.

Bulb did not go...

Winnebeater · 05-03-2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunner

Bulb did not go...

Sorry RonS1985, I think we hijacked your thread. Think of it as some entertainment till you get back to us. Grab some popcorn and a drink and enjoy! The element in an 1156 bulb is massive compared to the element in the average test light (the element in my Snap-on CT2 test light is maybe as thick as a hair). So, your average test light bulb doesn't stand a chance. However the element in the 1156 bulb will probably melt, it's just a matter of time. As the wire is getting hot from the demand that the circuit is placing on it, so is the element in the bulb. The question to ask would be; is the melting point of the copper at 1984.32 degrees Fahrenheit higher than the melting point of the bulb? As an analogy the wire and/or bulb element are similar to an element in an electric heater in this scenario. The next question would be; how long would it take to get the wire and/ or bulb element hot enough to melt under the circuits demand?

Click image for larger version

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Photo of a bulb for my circuit tester.

TitanicPilot · 05-04-2012, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonS1985

You guys crack me up. Well, took the starter off the RV. The first thing I noticed was the positive wire wasn't tightened down. Me dumbass!....

The first thing I learned when working on race cars is to always tighten whatever I am assembling or to leave it apart, never just put it together finger tight, "and tighten it later...". That rule has served me well on whatever mechanical thing I am working on. If somebody is helping me, they must abide by the same rule or set down the wrenches and step back.

Dunner · 05-04-2012, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonS1985

You guys crack me up.

Leave him alone, he's enjoying us hijackers.

First off Beater, have you quit beating your winne?

I'll let you think you've won.... in your mind, but only for a few seconds. Do I have a time limit as to how long I leave my test light,(with an actual test light bulb) illumination my garage? It's starting to draw flying insects. All lights, ignition, fuel pump are on again and I hit the start button and it's still lit. Again, I had it drawing 34 amps with the + lead on the + post, then lifted it with the light in series and it just lit.

BTW, the only time any copper got hot was when I used it to spin the starter from hot lead to the run lead without the test light.

I think what is happening is that the test light sees any other device connected as a path to ground. The same as putting the test light directly across the + and – battery posts. That won't blow a test light like was posted before.

I guess I could turn everything on, lay the + cable on the post, remove the computer run fuse, hit the start button, get it cranking over, then lift the cable with the light in series, but I don't think it would make a difference and I don't care to get a flash burn from doing that.

I'm pretty sure if I used a regular 1A fuse instead of a test light, it would blow. Don't get me wrong, the pump and lights do not come on going thru the test lite.

Breaking news!!!! My test light is now "L" shaped from being left on for so long. Guess it got a little warm. It was still lit though.

Dunner · 05-04-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanicPilot

The first thing I learned when working on race cars is to always tighten whatever I am assembling or to leave it apart, never just put it together finger tight, "and tighten it later...". That rule has served me well on whatever mechanical thing I am working on. If somebody is helping me, they must abide by the same rule or set down the wrenches and step back.

What irks me is these idiot friends that put a part together and tighten one bolt all the way down.... one at a time, without a cross pattern. They usually have to loosen it up again to get the another bolts started. Arrg!