1989 Southwind motor replacement

[Winnebeater]

Disconnect every wire on the starter solenoid except the one that goes directly from the solenoid to the starter. Try taking a known good battery and set it close to the motor home. Then connect it to the starter with a set of heavy gauge jumper cables; connect the ground cable to the starters case and connect the positive to the battery terminal on the solenoid. After that, jump the battery terminal with the one that activates the starter solenoid. This will completely bypass all electronics in the motor home and isolate the starter and starter solenoid. If it still does the same thing then I would remove the starter from the engine and try to engage just the STARTER (not the solenoid). This is the most direct course of action because you are starting directly at the problem. If the starter works properly when you do either of these tests then I would suspect a loose or poor connection somewhere in the system.

[hometool]

it sounds to me like you have a dead battery in the motor home and you just are not getting enuph power with the jumper cables.i would sugest charging the battery with a battery charger if you do not have power near the motor home take the battery out and bring it somewhere that you can charge it and if you have it out after its charged have it tested most auto parts stores can test a battery lee

[VP]

RonS - Without going back in this thread to see if it is mentioned... Do you have a JD Chassis? If so, check out the 1989 JD chassis manual at this link. Is a big file but well worth downloading and have found it to be very helpful.

Have to agree that a marginal battery would give classic clicking indications mentioned. However, in my case I eliminated battery concerns both in charge state and with a thorough cleaning of the cables, as well as fixing any grounding concerns. A bad starter solenoid could also cause that clicking as could a bad starter. A new Ford 460 solenoid is fairly cheap as is a rebuilt Durabuilt starter. However, to save $ you could easily diagnose these using Wininebeater's procedure above. But in my case, I took care of these prior to narrowing it down to the ignition switch/neutral safety switch issues.

This video (not a ford 460) demonstrates how NSW works and what happens when NSW not working correctly. No NSW and no juice thru the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. Suppose partially completed circuit could still cause clicking of starter solenoid?

[RonS1985]

I wouldn't know a "JD Chassis" if it fell on me. I changed out my battery terminals completely. I cut the old ones off down to good copper then put the new ones on. I do, however, suspect that I have a bad battery but I don't know if that would play a part in this if I'm jumping it. I jumped it without the cables connected to said battery and it still did the same. There is some resistance between the ignition and the starter, or there is a wire I'm missing somewhere. Like I said before, I've been all over this motor several times with a flashlight and I don't see anything. I'd bet my last dollar that if someone who knew what they were doing looked at in an hour they would probably find the culprit wire/problem. I just don't know anyone and I can't afford to take it to a garage. I know they would charge me hundreds in just troubleshooting time. I'd pay an experienced mechanic (not a backyard mechanic) to look at her on site. Problem is, the wife and I keep to ourselves mostly and don't know people in that career field. And there aren't too many RV'ers in this state. The ones that I know have brand new RV's and don't have these issues. You have no idea how close my wife is to calling a junkyard right now. I don't have the heart to break that news to my son. I'm just too damn close to give up now. I'm at the point where experience needs to step in. Replacing the motor was a matter of mechanics and labeling. That's easy (except for 5 gallons of sweat). Even though the battery isn't great, it did start it prior to all of this. Just to think, what started this was the emissions blower froze at 60mph. That threw the belt which stopped the water pump. It ran for only about 90 seconds without circulation but still blew the motor. If I had only shut it off the second the belt threw...

[KSCRUDE]

A dead cell in that old battery can cause havock. I would replace the battery before I give up. I would not give up. You are too close.

[VP]

Originally Posted by KSCRUDE

A dead cell in that old battery can cause havock. I would replace the battery before I give up. I would not give up. You are too close.

Yes, don't give up! Persistence with these old gals pays off. From the picture, your MH appears to be in good cosmetic condition. Every time I get the urge to step up to a nice diesel pusher, I just look at what I'd be paying on one vs mine and am quickly convinced to fix that whatever on the old girl. When that diesel pusher passes me up on the highway, I derive great satisfaction considering how much $$ I am saving compared to his outrageous outlay. Plus, boondocking with a Provost would be a dicey proposition and my girl fits where no Provost would dare to go (including Walmart parking lots without a second glance).

[RonS1985]

Aside from my son another reason I really don't want to give her up is, everything in it works and works well. I installed two flat screen TV's, the fridge is new, the water heater works well, the regular heater and A/C works well, the micro is about 20 years old and works well. It's just a great rv as far as I'm concerned. The asking price was $6,800 but the guy made the mistake of telling me he had been unemployed for 18 months. I flashed a cashier's check for $3,200 and he took it. I'm guess in going to have to pause until this hurricane passes by. I probably won't get back to it until 10/31.

[leadman]

If you have a voltmeter you can trace the power for voltage drops. Also some jumper cables are made with too small of a wire size to actually start a vehicle with a bad battery.
Put your meter on the battery terminals and have someone turn the key to the start position and hold it. The battery voltage should not drop below 9 volts, higher is better. If below 9v replace the battery.
You can follow the battery wires to the the starter doing the same test. The ground wire will probably go to the frame after a short distance. The positive wire may go to a solenoid before the starter. You can test on both sides of the solenoid.
IIRC this is a GM engine so if you are getting good voltage all the way to the starter jump the 2 large terminals, this will cause the starter motor to turn but not engage the flywheel. If it sounds like it is spinning good then jump the large terminal on the starter solenoid with one of the terminals on the solenoid. IIRC it is the one on the side away from the engine. Won't matter as the other one is for ignition power when the ignition switch is in the start position so if the starter does not engage with the first small wire try the other one.
When checking the connections with a meter you want to see no more than one half volt drop, less is better.
Somtimes the GM starters need to be shimmed as the tooth engagement is too tight. You can check this by loosening the starter mounting bolts. this may cause you to lose your ground to the starter so you may have to attach a cable from the starter to the engine if you don't already have one.

I had a guy bring a truck in the shop when I worked for International and he said it would not start, battery was dead so they jumped it. The problem was the lights and things were acting up. The battery had been drained by the lights left on and when they jumped it they hooked up the jumper cables backwards and it charged this way. I didn't think the engine would run with this condition but it did.
So if you if your meter hooked up properly shows a - or the needle goes to the left you have found your problem.

[RonS1985]

Has anyone been posting messages here? I've gotten about 15 push notices of someone posting a new message here but I don't see a new message anywhere. Not even in other parts of the forums where I've posted in the past. I don't get it.

[monkey]

Originally Posted by RonS1985

Has anyone been posting messages here? I've gotten about 15 push notices of someone posting a new message here but I don't see a new message anywhere. Not even in other parts of the forums where I've posted in the past. I don't get it.

Lot's of reply's here... Must be something in your browser.. Try refreshing, or clear history and come back to see what's new. I have not had that problem using Firefox...

[RonS1985]

Ok, everyone, I took my old battery to Wally World and had it tested. There were several dead cells. I bought a new one and out it in and...waalaa...she's turning over. Now the real fun begins...to find the perfect timing setting. I had someone who proclaimed to be an engine pro, albeit shade-tree, look at her last year. He put his finger over the #1 plug and hand-cracked the motor until he felt compression. I assume its correct, though I'm not keen about these "high-tech" methods. I've cranked her over several times but I'm not getting so much as a hint of firing. Any suggestions?

[RonS1985]

One more thing, even though she is cranking now she isn't cranking strong. I'm thinking about giving her some amp assistance by jumping her off my van. Any pros or cons to doing this? I certainly don't want to fry a new battery.

[Dave78Chief]

Ron,
This thread has been running for over a year. You have never updated your signiture to reflect what engine chassis combination you have. Do you have:

GM 454 on a P30 chassis,

Ford 460 on a Ford F53 chassis or,

Ford 460 on a John Deere / Oshkosh Chassis,

As the approach one takes from this point depends on what you have you really need to establish this.

Dave

[RonS1985]

Hmm...I thought I gave that info in the beginning. It's a Chevy P30 with a 454.