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Old 05-12-2012, 01:32 PM   #1
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Chasing Electrical Issues

Got my new ATS301 auto transfer switch installed, all new Circuit breakers and C/B bridge and a new cooling fan installed and am looking to find my last electrical problem.
Here is the situation, which has me slightly confused
When I finished all the above stuff, I plugged the RV into my house and one by one turned on the circuit breakers and ran all around with my Handy dandy Fluke brand Voltage tester
Main on, nothing anywhere except to the transfer switch
First 20 amp on, only the rear ac unit would work
Second 20 amp on, the front ac would work and to my surprise the microwave and the range hood both worked
First 15 amp on, power down to the 110V outlets on right side of the RV and the outlets on either side of the bed
second 15 amp on nothing changed
In my other thread Jim_Hitek suggested I check the patio outlet which I did and found it is dead also, as are the two 110 volt outlets on the left side forward of the kitchen, over the couch on the bottom of the overhead cabinets
The refrigerator works on either electric or LP gas, is the electric 12V or 110V?
Please de-unconfuse me
Jim suggested I pull that patio outlet and check, it may be part of the other dead outlets chain
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #2
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Check for a GFCI that may be tripped. Usually one GFCI is located in/near the bathroom. Some coaches have more than one. Your patio outlet is almost certainly in the chain from a GFCI.

The refrigerator uses 12V for control circuits, but the actual cooling power is 110/120 V. Sounds like that circuit is working correctly for you.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:00 PM   #3
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I'm curious why you changed all that equipment to begin with.

Especially the circuit breakers. it's most unusual to just randomly replace all the circuit breakers for no reason.

Did all the outlets work prior to the change?



How did you document the original wiring before you removed everything?
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:15 PM   #4
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Recepticles are connected in a daisy chain affair.

GFCI Breaker (if installed)
The cable frm the 15 amp breaker would go to the GFCI recepticle first. The GFCI circuit in that recepticle protects not only that recepticle but also all remaining recepticles in the daisy chain. If a problem develops in any of the recepticles in the daisy chain, the GFCI will open. If the GFCI opens all recepticles in the daisy chain loose power. The GFCI recepticle will either be in the bathroom or by kitchen sink. A GFCI circuit is a safety device that is checking to see if there is current flowing in the ground path [remember that wire I had you add to the ATS before ]. The short can either be a hot to ground or a neutral to ground. Moisture is the biggest offender which is why the GFCI is normally in the bathroom. Jim pointed at the patio plug becasue of it's susceptability to moisture.

Your wording implies you can run both ACs at the same time off the shore power cable. Normally that is not a good idea on 30 amp service as you are pushing the amperage limit. If you look back at my original drawing that had an AC select switch you will see even there you could not run both ACs off shore power. Even on generator the circuits were spilt so the ACs were not from the same source (ie. L1 and L2 are seperate sources).

Dave
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland View Post
I'm curious why you changed all that equipment to begin with.

Especially the circuit breakers. it's most unusual to just randomly replace all the circuit breakers for no reason.

Did all the outlets work prior to the change?



How did you document the original wiring before you removed everything?
One day I plugged in the rv and nothing worked, thought it was a bad cord plug, changed that, nothing, then looked into the storage box where the cord is stored, saw an electric box in there, opened the cover, saw three ground wires screwed together with a wire nut, moved it and the nut fell off along with one wire that just dropped out of the bundle. Ah Ha says I, we need a better ground. gotta copper ground block, installed that and got some new heavy duty wire nuts for the other wires, screwed it back together and nothing, that led to the transfer switch, we had power to that but nothing coming out, gave it a smack and suddenly got DC power back but no ac power, removed the switch and opened it up and found it was all burned up inside. got a new switch and during the install I had to remove the main circuit breaker to install the black power wire and as I did so the bridge unit connecting all the CB's together fell out and came apart, it was all melted, so were the backs of the main and double 15 amp breakers, so I bought all new breakers, got a new bridge unit at the RV store, put it all together and everything worked again, after about an hour or two of the Air conditioner running I touched the electric box and it was so hot I could not keep my hand on it for very long, that lead to the discovery that the cooling fan had seized up and now you know my story

No the outlets that did not work did not work prior to all this work, still don't work, plus I just looked at the outside access to the refrigerator and noticed in the ceiling is a 11V outlet theb fridge is plugged into and that does not have power, so now I have four 11v outlets that do not have power.
the patio outlet, the fridge outlet and two under the cabinets behind the drivers seat

I documented everything with my little Nikon, took dozens of pics from every angle so I would know to put it all back together
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #6
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Arch,
The deeper he dug into the no power issue he had the more he discovered failing components. He is systematically going through the issues.
Dang what next can happen

Automatic Transfer Switch Install

With all the $ he has put out so far on the restoration he opted to repair the converter and hold off upgrading it at this time.

Dave
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #7
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A GFCI is a super sensitive breaker. I measures the current differential between the hot and neutral wires. It should be zero. If it is not, the breaker will trip instantly. It does not wait for the current to overload. It is commonly found in a receptacle that controls that outlet and all supplied by it. It can also be part of the breaker itself.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:29 PM   #8
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Oh, from what I have read on IRV2, it is not unusual for a GFCI to just go bad.

Dave
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave78Chief View Post
Recepticles are connected in a daisy chain affair.

GFCI Breaker (if installed)
The cable frm the 15 amp breaker would go to the GFCI recepticle first. The GFCI circuit in that recepticle protects not only that recepticle but also all remaining recepticles in the daisy chain. If a problem develops in any of the recepticles in the daisy chain, the GFCI will open. If the GFCI opens all recepticles in the daisy chain loose power. The GFCI recepticle will either be in the bathroom or by kitchen sink. A GFCI circuit is a safety device that is checking to see if there is current flowing in the ground path [remember that wire I had you add to the ATS before ]. The short can either be a hot to ground or a neutral to ground. Moisture is the biggest offender which is why the GFCI is normally in the bathroom. Jim pointed at the patio plug becasue of it's susceptability to moisture.

Your wording implies you can run both ACs at the same time off the shore power cable. Normally that is not a good idea on 30 amp service as you are pushing the amperage limit. If you look back at my original drawing that had an AC select switch you will see even there you could not run both ACs off shore power. Even on generator the circuits were spilt so the ACs were not from the same source (ie. L1 and L2 are seperate sources).

Dave
Sorry about the wording but I can only run one ac at a time on shore power, I can run them both on gen power.

GFCI damn,,,,, I had a water logged bathroom GFCI that was wet and rusty when I got the RV, I took that out and now I have four capped wires in there., I thought that was just for the bathroom outlet. I checked the wires in the box and one was hot. I must have disconnected all the other outlets by removing that GFCI?

The box has two romex wires going into it, there are two blacks, two whites and one bare ground and one of the blacks is hot. Damn Dave I know this stuff, why didn't I think of that, it must be my advanced years on this planet.

I can just connect the wires together and see if I get power to some of the dead outlets. It makes sense that the patio outlet would be connected to that GFCI
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:59 PM   #10
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Sorry about the wording but I can only run one ac at a time on shore power, I can run them both on gen power.

GFCI damn,,,,, I had a water logged bathroom GFCI that was wet and rusty when I got the RV, I took that out and now I have four capped wires in there., I thought that was just for the bathroom outlet. I checked the wires in the box and one was hot. I must have disconnected all the other outlets by removing that GFCI?

The box has two romex wires going into it, there are two blacks, two whites and one bare ground and one of the blacks is hot. Damn Dave I know this stuff, why didn't I think of that, it must be my advanced years on this planet.

I can just connect the wires together and see if I get power to some of the dead outlets. It makes sense that the patio outlet would be connected to that GFCI
You guys are GENIUS, this is a great site

My wife and I connected those wires in the bathroom box and now everything that did not work has come to life, even the refrigerator outlet and the clock in the coffee maker came on.

Thank you for all the help....

Regarding the refrigerator, I have power in the cord that goes into the fridge but I don't see or hear anything running. I have the switch turned to electric. There are two fuses on the back of the fridge, and they are really stuck in there, they are the black screw in types that have a glass fuse inside, waadya think, try a pliers on them, it says they are 12V
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:14 PM   #11
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Unless there is an added fan in or behind your fridge, there ain't nothing to hear running. If you have the switch set to electric, just check the freezer after an hour or so; it should be getting cool.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:21 PM   #12
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Unless there is an added fan in or behind your fridge, there ain't nothing to hear running. If you have the switch set to electric, just check the freezer after an hour or so; it should be getting cool.
I thought there would be a light or something come on to let you know it's working.
I'm thinking that one or both of those 12v fuses on the back might be bad, or have corroded and lost their connection
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #13
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You could be right. Never hurts to check those fuses. They are probably for the 12V control system.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #14
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If you think about it I almost always reference the documentation for a device to explain something. Given that there are dozens of different fridges out there, what make model of fridge? However, gfs1943 is correct that a RV fridge basically makes no noise. It is reffered to as an absorbtion process that does not use a compressor. There is a boiler section where the refridgerent (basically amonia) is heated (propane or electric heating element) to the boiling point which circulates the refridgerent through the system. One of the RV Techs who post on this site posted a great blog here on IRV2 about how the absorbtion process works if you want to learn about it. Oh, a 12VDC control board is used so you can run it on propane when 110VAC is not available. It also controls the 110VAC heating element.

Oh, please replace that GFCI recepticle at some point rather than jump around it. It is worth the safety it provides. At least you know know what it affects.

Dave
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