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Old 04-12-2009, 07:37 AM   #1
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Early 80s Vogue Diesel Pusher Question

I recently purchased a 1983 Vogue Diesel pusher with a 3208 catepillar that was running perfectly until I changed all the fuel lines, fuel filter and water separator filter. It now will not start. I have tried everything including professinal diesel mechanic's help. I have two options left a match or find someone with a Vogue and see if the fuel lines have somehow been crossed. I received great manuals with the Vogue but unfortunalely the fuel tank part is generic and has little specifics.

So I am looking for someone with a Vogue diesel pusher that could help by looking how their lines are routed by viewing through the rear engine compartment!

Thanks
Dave
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:12 AM   #2
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Sorry you are having problems. Sure a bad way to find a forum. Was your diesel mechanic a good one? I would suspect you have a line hooked up wrong or possible an air lock somewhere. You can have a real problem bleeding the air in some of the engines.

Can you even get it to fire...smoke in the exhaust?

Ken
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel 228 View Post
I recently purchased a 1983 Vogue Diesel pusher with a 3208 catepillar that was running perfectly until I changed all the fuel lines, fuel filter and water separator filter. It now will not start. I have tried everything including professinal diesel mechanic's help. I have two options left a match or find someone with a Vogue and see if the fuel lines have somehow been crossed. I received great manuals with the Vogue but unfortunalely the fuel tank part is generic and has little specifics.

So I am looking for someone with a Vogue diesel pusher that could help by looking how their lines are routed by viewing through the rear engine compartment!

Thanks
Dave
80's era cat, i have to ask.
can you get fuel from the tank to the filters?
i know you do...but is there fuel in the tank?
do you have an electric primer pump to the filters? or a manual primer bulb at the filters?
if so has it filled the new filter housing with fuel
did you or the mechanic loosen the fuel lines at the injector pump and bleed the air till fresh fuel flows out? makes a huge mess., then retighten them, and then loosen the lines at the injectors till... you get clean fuel , again its messy.

does it try to fire when you crank it over like a catch and die or does it just turn over?
did you remove the lines from the mechanical transfer pump? and are you sure they didn't cross thread and are sucking air?, or cracked at the fitting?
i will go out to the garage and get my big book of 3208's its vintage.

you didn't accidentally pull the fuel solenoid wire off did you
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:12 PM   #4
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80's era cat, i have to ask.
can you get fuel from the tank to the filters? Yes I bought a small manual transfer pump to make sure.
i know you do...but is there fuel in the tank? I have put over 15 fresh gallons even though I was told there was 35 gallons in it
do you have an electric primer pump to the filters? or a manual primer bulb at the filters? No electric pump that I know of but a manual primer
if so has it filled the new filter housing with fuel Yes there is a manual pump on the filter housing and I have pump over a gallon out of it.
did you or the mechanic loosen the fuel lines at the injector pump and bleed the air till fresh fuel flows out? makes a huge mess., then retighten them, and then loosen the lines at the injectors till... you get clean fuel , again its messy. Yes more than once

does it try to fire when you crank it over like a catch and die or does it just turn over? Yes it fires on the first cylinder, smoke out of the exhaust, starter then dissengaes. If I leave the starter on it sounds like any starter engaged too long but it almost never hits on more than one cylinder!
did you remove the lines from the mechanical transfer pump? and are you sure they didn't cross thread and are sucking air?, or cracked at the fitting? To my knowlege the only transfer pump is in the Injector pump. I have pulled the solinoid per another online expert to check the shutoff. I have even pulled the inspection cover on the IP where I have access to the cam system that shuts off the fuel. The cavity was full of fuel and I manually moved the mechanism that shuts off the fuel. When I pulled up on the shut off which should of allowed plenty of fuel it never hit even once.
i will go out to the garage and get my big book of 3208's its vintage.

you didn't accidentally pull the fuel solenoid wire off did you
I actually pulled it off and watched it work with the key on.

The only piece of info that might help is that I had accidentaly switched in and out lines to the water separator for many attempts at cranking. I had dissassembled the entire system to change the filter, install a new bowl and self venting drain valve. Everything was spotless on the inside so some trash from the tank could have passed but it also would have had to make it thourgh the fuel filter which was new! I also had two new lines fabricated one that comes from the constant bleed valve to the fuel filter assembly and one that goes to the intake from something on top of the IP. I may pull them to leak check but...

Thanks for any help! I am a decent mechanic but not with diesel components. I sprayed starter fluid into the intake and it rumbled a bit but was pinging too much and I discontinued that.

Desperate Dave
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:22 PM   #5
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Sorry you are having problems. Sure a bad way to find a forum. Was your diesel mechanic a good one? I would suspect you have a line hooked up wrong or possible an air lock somewhere. You can have a real problem bleeding the air in some of the engines.

Can you even get it to fire...smoke in the exhaust? Yes it fires once then the starter dissengages.

Ken
Do you have a Vogue diesel pusher? If so does it have a Racor water separator mounted on the back by the engine?
Dave
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Old 04-12-2009, 05:19 PM   #6
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I actually pulled it off and watched it work with the key on.

The only piece of info that might help is that I had accidentaly switched in and out lines to the water separator for many attempts at cranking. I had dissassembled the entire system to change the filter, install a new bowl and self venting drain valve. Everything was spotless on the inside so some trash from the tank could have passed but it also would have had to make it thourgh the fuel filter which was new! I also had two new lines fabricated one that comes from the constant bleed valve to the fuel filter assembly and one that goes to the intake from something on top of the IP. I may pull them to leak check but...

Thanks for any help! I am a decent mechanic but not with diesel components. I sprayed starter fluid into the intake and it rumbled a bit but was pinging too much and I discontinued that.

Desperate Dave

well poooo there bear,
no more starter fluid, its hard on the top end

i dug out the book and you have done about everything....
you didnt remove the injector pump correct?
and did you pull the individual injector lines off completely and wash em out,
its pretty hard to put em on wrong, but i would recheck the numbers if you did pull all the lines, just to make sure,

she ran fine before this last adventure correct.
i am not sure how your rig is set up...but can you bypass the filters and get clean fuel straight to the injector pump? if you can i would try that as a bypass.

its a challenge, i would love to be there to dig in
one more
did you verify the line from the tank is free and clear?
sorry i am not much more help
3208s are pretty straight forward motors,
i am leaning towards the filter set up or maybe the new filter has a piece f plastic stuck in it???
i will go read some more
maybe scan a page for you
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:01 PM   #7
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Might be considered off topic,but I have been reading this thread and even through it don't own a diesel pusher,given the replies I have to say your guys are just the very best the net has to offer anyone.great job guys!!!!!.Just the best.
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:24 AM   #8
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well poooo there bear,
no more starter fluid, its hard on the top end

i dug out the book and you have done about everything....
you didnt remove the injector pump correct? No but that is next! A mechanic said that I might have gauled the pump when running without fuel.
and did you pull the individual injector lines off completely and wash em out, i did not pull them
its pretty hard to put em on wrong, but i would recheck the numbers if you did pull all the lines, just to make sure,

she ran fine before this last adventure correct. correct
i am not sure how your rig is set up...but can you bypass the filters and get clean fuel straight to the injector pump? if you can i would try that as a bypass. i am going to pull the filters and check for plastic because the tank is too old to run without filters. there was some small pieces of rust in the bottom of the water separator when i pulled it.

its a challenge, i would love to be there to dig in
one more
did you verify the line from the tank is free and clear?
sorry i am not much more help
3208s are pretty straight forward motors,
i am leaning towards the filter set up or maybe the new filter has a piece f plastic stuck in it???
i will go read some more
maybe scan a page for you
Thanks for the help. I have done this enough that when i finally find the culrit it will all make sense but i'm not there yet!!!
dave a little less desperate
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:44 PM   #9
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dave
keep us posted, this is good mystery and yep the answer will probably surprise you its so simple once you find it

if you still have the old filter i would cut it open and look fr metal bits or filings

gaullling the pump is certainly a thought, but, it would take more than turing her over a bunch to get it totally hosed up, although what is the age of the pump?
could be a simple thing like orings failed from low sulphur fuel and is just pumping or slossing fuel around the pump cavity
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:37 AM   #10
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Thanks for the concern and encouragement!

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dave
keep us posted, this is good mystery and yep the answer will probably surprise you its so simple once you find it

if you still have the old filter i would cut it open and look fr metal bits or filings

gaullling the pump is certainly a thought, but, it would take more than turing her over a bunch to get it totally hosed up, although what is the age of the pump? I think it is orignal equipment so 1983!
could be a simple thing like orings failed from low sulphur fuel and is just pumping or slossing fuel around the pump cavity
I put the injector pump back together last night and installed the solenoid. It is at least consistent. It fires once, begins to start, starter dissengages and then dies. It has done tht 100 plus times without fail.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:54 PM   #11
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I put the injector pump back together last night and installed the solenoid. It is at least consistent. It fires once, begins to start, starter dissengages and then dies. It has done tht 100 plus times without fail.
do we have an emoticon for STUMPED?
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:05 AM   #12
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do we have an emoticon for STUMPED?

I like your choice. I have contacted a well respected diesel mechanic. I will let you know the results if there are any. If he doesn't find anything I will just have him move in for the thousands of dollars I will pay him for trouble shooting and never finding the problem. I will just need to jack it up and put a skirt around the new addition to my little house!!!
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:29 AM   #13
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I like your choice. I have contacted a well respected diesel mechanic. I will let you know the results if there are any. If he doesn't find anything I will just have him move in for the thousands of dollars I will pay him for trouble shooting and never finding the problem. I will just need to jack it up and put a skirt around the new addition to my little house!!!
its good at least you have a plan B, to make her comfortable up on blocks
sorry

you know internal combustion engines are just to simple,
suck squeeze bang blow.

I know you have already started at square one and gone this far....
BUT
the biggest obstacle are often staring right at us and turn out to be little things we as technicians just plain looked right past or ignored.

since you have time
might make a list of everything you have taken apart or troubleshooted and then try to connect some of the dots,

a good why why chart may help
i wish i was closer, this puppy is interesting
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Old 04-15-2009, 10:43 AM   #14
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suck squeeze bang blow

If you are getting a bang at one point, it must be getting SOME fuel. But it is not getting fuel to keep running. A diesel should run once it fires, as long as you get two things...air and fuel. Without either one of these...no bang.

I'd concentrate on the fule system and see if you have fuel flow.

Ken
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