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Old 04-28-2015, 09:05 AM   #29
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Suggest fan clutch only first.

I am a troubleshooter and like to know what fixed it...

Changing lots or shotgunning often leaves littel mental reward as you are not sure...

Once problem is fixed then perform upgrades.

Hoses wont matter so change if must be removed to do other work otherwise just change the fan clutch.

Before starting verify clutch bearrings good (no wobble) because if they are bsd your water pump bearings may be worn and need to be replaced.

Regarding the ac parts you shoukd leave them virgin and in place as resale value which is already low will be gone.

If clean it will not impact the cooling much if at all and you may wish to fix it.

Hotshot is a direct replacement for R12 per a commercial servicer locally and I have used in our unit and it works same as R12.

Your system should be simple (unlike ours with front and rear systems) so maybe a couple hoses drier and worst case compressor but you should have access to reasonable replacements as well as the hotshot.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:48 AM   #30
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running to hot

The 454....( same engine i have ) is a gas sucking beast. Feed it, and it will work hard for you ......starve it, and it will be sluggish and over heat.

If the entire cooling system is clean and working, id try a fuel filter. And I would look for vac leaks.
Anything that can cause a lean burn condition will cause the monster to run hot.

Basic rule......hard start....fuel pump
good start but under powered or running hot......fuel filter.

Try this....let it get to temp.....then from idle in drive way.....mash the gas to the floor.
If there is a hesitation or a rough spot before it reves up......fuel filter.
Hope this helps.....feel free to message me....im a 454 expert
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Try this....let it get to temp.....then from idle in drive way.....mash the gas to the floor.
If there is a hesitation or a rough spot before it reves up......fuel filter.
Hope this helps.....feel free to message me....im a 454 expert
The fuel filter will not show signs of being clogged using this method in all cases. Hesitation/bog going from idle to full throttle is a sign of a failing accelerator pump if the fuel supply is regulated by a carburetor.
Losing power/decreasing RPM/backfiring during hard acceleration on flat ground after 10-15sec is an indication of a fuel supply restriction. It could be caused by the fuel pump going bad, the fuel filter being clogged, a bad tank vent, or a collapsed fuel line.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:22 PM   #32
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FYI to the OP;

Just on the Hayden site and they suggest changing the water pump at the same time you change the fan clutch, since they share a common shaft and have a similar life expectancy.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:49 PM   #33
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FYI to the OP;

Just on the Hayden site and they suggest changing the water pump at the same time you change the fan clutch, since they share a common shaft and have a similar life expectancy.
Hayden rocks! Not that I can work for them or anything.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:28 PM   #34
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Now that you mention it, it is sluggish under take off and feels under powered at full throttle, plus it does backfire slightly. I am still changing the top hose as it has several soft spots in it and is more than likely original. I will change the clutch first, and put a filter in it, then road test it.
I could not see the forest for the trees in this situation, or the magnitude of vacuum lines on this beast.
I usually work on 4 and 5 cylinder turbo Volvo engines and it has been many years since I had work on any Chevrolet engines.
Thank you all for keeping me heading in the right direction, you all are fantastic!!!
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:05 AM   #35
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The 80's were really good to vacuum hose/line manufacturers. I mean really good.
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Old 04-29-2015, 10:07 AM   #36
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Get a vacuum gage and a couple cans of spray type chemtool.

The chemtool burns well and does not stink like other brands.

If equipped with cat converter do not use heavy spray into carb.

Just light sprays on mating surfaces and hoses that you suspect may be leaking.

If leak is present engine usually responds well to the spray.
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Old 04-29-2015, 08:30 PM   #37
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The 80's certainly were good to hose manufacturers! Luckily I work in the auto parts field and can get plenty of hose cheaply. I already have the dog box off and have plenty of time this weekend so I may as well change out the hoses as well. I want to make sure everything is done and done right so I don't have to go back in there for a while!
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Old 04-29-2015, 08:59 PM   #38
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The 80's certainly were good to hose manufacturers! Luckily I work in the auto parts field and can get plenty of hose cheaply. I already have the dog box off and have plenty of time this weekend so I may as well change out the hoses as well. I want to make sure everything is done and done right so I don't have to go back in there for a while!
I'd rather see you get a box of vacuum caps and trash that stuff. '86 model emissions controls weren't terribly effective and today probably isn't working well even if it's all connected. You can put a modern catalytic converter on it and that alone will do as much to clean the exhaust up as anything.
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Old 04-30-2015, 01:35 AM   #39
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It is common for the aftermarket mechanical guages that have one continuos tube from the gauge to the head to read too high in the Chevy v8 engines. This is due to the bulb that contains the ether is long enough to almost touch the head on the inside right at the combustion area when the hole in the side of the head right above the block is used. This is the type of gauge we installed in the semi tractors and heavy equipment when I worked as a mechanic.
So locate where the sender is and remove it to see how long the bulb is going into the head.
I used an aftermarket electrical guage in my 1988 Itasca 454 and placed the sender in the intake manifold right beside the thermostat in a hole I drilled and tapped. Very accurate this way.
I had replaced the fan clutch due to leakage and it was on almost all the time. What I found was the fan clutch is designed by the factory (I phoned them) that supplies AutoZone to come on at 195 degrees, the same as the original thermostat opens at. I asked the tech why they did it like this and he had no comment.
They were fighting each other so I changed the thermostat to a 180 degree now it is working good. The fan clutch was Autozone's heavy duty unit and it works great.
I also blocked areas around the front of the radiator that were open so the air was forced to go thru the radiator fins. I also replaced the radiator later because it started to leak at the header.
Now I can idle the engine in the Arizona summer heat with the a/c on and it does not get over 195 degrees. Will climb to about 220 on a long, hard climb.
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:35 AM   #40
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Fan clutches "coming on" at 195 isn't like flipping a light switch. Until the thermostat opens and allows hot water to flow through the radiator, thus heating the air flowing through the radiator, the spring on the front of the clutch has no real idea how hot the engine is.

They start closing then, going from a state where the fan is idling to the fan being driven 10% or so. As things get hotter, the clutch locks more moving more air.

The actual temperatures vary by application, but action starting at 195ish is about right, they're pretty locked 1:1 at 220ish.

And your mileage may vary due to several factors, your engine might be at 190 but if you've got a trans cooler and you're running the AC then the clutch is detecting that heat and will lock up to deal with it just as if the engine was at 220.

For fan clutch operation the engine temp is only a piece of the puzzle, it's all about the temperature of the air flowing across the front of the clutch.
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:19 PM   #41
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I'd rather see you get a box of vacuum caps and trash that stuff. '86 model emissions controls weren't terribly effective and today probably isn't working well even if it's all connected. You can put a modern catalytic converter on it and that alone will do as much to clean the exhaust up as anything.
I live in a non emissions part of the state, would I even need to bother with a cat if it did not come with one? I know the engine has one of those lovely A.I.R. pumps that were prone to locking up, this one is still functioning as everything is still hooked up, including the drive belt. I checked the pipes running into the manifold, they are stainless steel as well as the manifolds themselves, and every thing is solid. All the emission hoses are there and are complete as well.
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:58 PM   #42
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If it is stock and no cat then do not attempt to install one as emissions of engine would wipe it out in short order.
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