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Old 01-19-2013, 01:46 PM   #1
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Gas not reaching the carb issue

On the 78 Dodge Apollo 7.2 440-3 engine, it was running great all of a sudden the car doesn't start in the morning. I changed the manual fuel pump with a Pep Boys pump. I worked the first day and now engine turns no starting. Then out of the blue it starts right away. It starts using starting fluid so I don't think it's an electric isuue. Could it be that the fuel pump doesn't have enough power to get the gas out of the tank? Should I get an additional electric pump?( Anybody know where to find a cheap one?) Thanks in advence
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:30 PM   #2
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A lot of that stuff you buy at the parts stores these days are quite cheap. A electric one is probley the best bet. Just eliminate the manual one altogether. Ask your local mechanic or possible parts store man where to get one. Don't forget these pumps push fuel better then they suck it so the electric one will need to be added back by the fuel tank. It is a little bit of work but, after your done you won't have any more problems.

But, before you go to all that trouble did you check to see if the filter inside the carb is plugged? When you replaced the old pump you might have broken some crud loose.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:59 PM   #3
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There's a little cylindrical filter right before the carb, and there are two more see through paper filters right by the tanks. I had this problem before I got the new pump, then I bought the pump and didn't work right away I had to pour some gas in the carb and after a bit it finally started and ran all day without a problem. The next morning same thing. Today it didn't start and i kept trying every 5 minutes and it finally did start and after a minute it just died down. It ran real nice when it started. I have two tanks so don't think the filters are the problem they are pretty new, I will check again though this thing wasn't driven for a couple of years prior. Some say to put your palms over the carb to help the pump. Can these pumps be so weak? Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:58 PM   #4
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my money is on a bad fuel line, crack letting air in.

Easy to test, pull line in side of pump, feel for vacuum when cranking.

Could put short nose into container to test.


If you have not put a new line in then do it.

We had a 1974 dodge chassis, all rubber lines and all toast.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #5
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Look for another large inline filter under the fuel pump. I had a unit that had one added in but out of sight if you weren't looking in the right place. Once I changed that my problems went away. If you changed the built in filter in the carb and the small ones back by the tanks then it may be there is the add on unit as that's what caused us grief.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:21 PM   #6
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I'll go with TQ60,s answer about a cracked fuel line. Check the fuel line where it attaches to the top of the fuel tank. There should be a short piece of rubber fuel hose there connecting the steel fuel line to the tank. It is most likely rotted and cracked to the point that it is sucking air instead of fuel.

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Old 01-20-2013, 07:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gica View Post
There's a little cylindrical filter right before the carb, and there are two more see through paper filters right by the tanks. I had this problem before I got the new pump, then I bought the pump and didn't work right away I had to pour some gas in the carb and after a bit it finally started and ran all day without a problem. The next morning same thing. Today it didn't start and i kept trying every 5 minutes and it finally did start and after a minute it just died down. It ran real nice when it started. I have two tanks so don't think the filters are the problem they are pretty new, I will check again though this thing wasn't driven for a couple of years prior. Some say to put your palms over the carb to help the pump. Can these pumps be so weak? Thanks in advance.
Putting you palms over the carb simpley acts like a choke and cuts down on the fesh air getting to the carb. BUT !!! if it backfires you going to burn the crap out of your hands so I really don't recommend doing that.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:33 AM   #8
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I will definitely check for the rubber hose at the tank I did replace the two little filters for each tank and all the hoses that attach to them, also replaced the hoses up by the carb. So the hose by the tank is the only one left. Funny how things happen one by one. Do you guys recommend an electric fuel pump. Was looking at this one: Brand New Carter P60504 Universal Electric Fuel Pump | eBay
Don't want to invest to much since it's not being driven for long periods. I just want to know if I need more than 4-6psi. This doesn't require fuel pressure regulator and it seems to work on Rvs. Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:46 AM   #9
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gica, My first motorhome was a 1978 Monaco Class C on a dodge chassis / 440 engine. I started having fuel starvation problems when climbing long hills when it was hot outside. I went through all the fixes you have tried and then some. Ended up being just the rubber hose connecting the fuel line to the tank. I really don't think you will need an electric fuel pump if you fix the rubber hose, but you can always add it later after you do the fix.

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Old 01-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #10
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you had mentioned dual tanks, do you have a manual switch for them if so make sure its not in the middle not allowing fuel from either tank. If you have a vacuum gauge you would check the line at the fuel pump make sure the pump is pulling a vacuum if it is then go back to the tank and make sure it is there also
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:54 PM   #11
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It is not a race car, even though the 440 passes very few gas stations you should not need the electric pump

If it sits for periods of time the fuel may evap from that carb, but the factory pump will squirt some in quickly, so should not be big deal.

If you do add the electric pump do it RIGHT, it must have a Relay connected to the oil pressure sendor with starter bypass.

That helps to reduce fire risk, if engine stops loss of oil pressure stops pump from possibly feeding fire, imagine hole in line, pump continues to pump gas out hole even though motor stopped, in seconds you have a bunch of gas waiting for a spark
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:39 PM   #12
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Update

I went to the RV and there are 4 things connected inside. The sending unit two metal pipes to the tank fittings and a hose which I assume it's the release or back pressure ro the tank. The pipes are one for the fuel pump and the other goes to the generator. The RV drove fine last night and stalled. Pushing the choke plate right away restarted it and didn't cause anymore problems. This morning it started fine. All these info are from the guy living in it. I basically tightened all of the hoses that are new. The only one that is older is the one by the manual pump going to the carb, a short one. I also tightened the negative and positive to the starter which were loose, from the guy installing it and not being able to tighten really good, causing the starter to click once in a while. Now all seems good, new batteries, new starter, new pump all tight, it starts in 2 seconds. The filters looked clean since it hasn't been driven. The carb was rebuilt 3 month ago but I had the jets change twice when trying to pass smog. I had the original ones put back after. I read something in regards to the float chambers emptying on the intake when sitting and the pump not feeling it right away. Could the carb be a possibility in this instance? It's a pretty simple system so I don't think it will be very hard to diagnost the issue especially with all of the good willing experts here. Thanks.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:01 AM   #13
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I don't have the answer, but I do want to add to make sure the choke isn't "sticky". They can get that way after sitting for a while, although I imagine attention was paid when the carbs where went through. Only mentioned it because I encountered this problem and took me quite a few head scratching moments to recognize it. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:54 PM   #14
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If the fuel lines are original, replace them. A friend had a '88 Ramcharger that we swapped back to carb and had similar problems even after the carb rebuild. Turned out to be the insides of the lines were flaking and getting caught in the needle inside the carb.
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