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Old 08-28-2016, 09:25 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by bsinmich View Post
This is totally false. A brake system is not a sealed system. If this was true you would never be able to apply your brakes because fluid is pushed from the master cylinder to the wheel cylinders. This is replaced by air that is always entering and leaving the master cylinder. Fluid remaining in disc brake calipers is also re-placed by air as the pads wear. There are ways for the moisture to get into the brake fluid. Check the color of brake fluid after 2-3 years and it will most likely be dark colored. That is what happens whenn moisture gets into the system.
I have been to Seattle and knnow you call it a drought whe you go 3 days with no rain. Your brake fluid is absorbing moisture.
You are 100% correct. Every time you press the pedal air is drawn in the vents in the caps in the master cylinder. For years, I have mulled in my mind about drilling out larger holes in the caps and installing hoses leading to a moisture absorbing pack. When air was drawn through the pack it would remove all moisture. Of course the pack would have to changed every year or so.
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:59 AM   #16
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Look close at the lid over the master cylinder.

It should have a flexible rubber membrane that moves along with liquid below it.

Holes in the caps are to allow the membrane to move.

Newer ones may be different but most are built this way so no outside air enters system unless you remove the cover.
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bsinmich View Post
This is totally false. A brake system is not a sealed system. If this was true you would never be able to apply your brakes because fluid is pushed from the master cylinder to the wheel cylinders. This is replaced by air that is always entering and leaving the master cylinder. Fluid remaining in disc brake calipers is also re-placed by air as the pads wear. There are ways for the moisture to get into the brake fluid. Check the color of brake fluid after 2-3 years and it will most likely be dark colored. That is what happens whenn moisture gets into the system.
I have been to Seattle and knnow you call it a drought whe you go 3 days with no rain. Your brake fluid is absorbing moisture.
Dark color is NOT indicative of air entering a brake system. If air were regularly enter a brake system then why are you not continually bleeding your brakes? This isn't rocket science folks.
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:04 PM   #18
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Look close at the lid over the master cylinder.

It should have a flexible rubber membrane that moves along with liquid below it.

Holes in the caps are to allow the membrane to move.

Newer ones may be different but most are built this way so no outside air enters system unless you remove the cover.
Correct and what air enters after removing the cover is worked out of the system in a rather short time because it lies between the fluid level & cover/cap.
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Old 08-29-2016, 05:31 AM   #19
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I have an 89 Komfort trendsetter 25 on a p 30 chassis. In March I replaced the hydro booster because it was leaking ps fluid. I used a a1 cardone from o'reillys. I had a shop bleed the brakes and they replaced the master cylinder. I left for Alaska in May and after 3000 mi the front pads were wore out and I replaced them. Another 1000 mi and they were worn out again so in Anchorage I camped at o'reillys and replaced rotors, calipers, and pads. Drove 100 miles and the front brakes locked. I found that if I park and shut down the brakes bleed down and the brakes release. Back at the Anchorage o'reillys we determine I have the wrong hydro boost and they exchanged it with the correct one which I installed in their parking lot. I determined the brakes were not completely releasing after you press the pedal, the new booster is stronger than the first and while the first would drag t h e new one will lock up. I didn't determine this until I was several hundred miles from Anchorage on my way home. Drove it this way until I got back to the lower 48 and as I parked in Colorado the linkage pulled out of the second a1 cardone booster. O'reillys gave me another replacement and I drove it home but the problem has persisted. I just replaced the master cylinder again but the problem is still there. A1 cardone has determined it is a problem with the booster but haven't found a solution. Has anyone else ran into this, I'm getting desperate., I've rung all the fun out of this problem.
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:21 AM   #20
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#1, Do you have a right angle, bellcrank arrangement, between the booster and pedal ?

They have been known to bind up and cause sticking brakes.

#2, Have you checked to see if the rear brakes are activating at all ?

A kinked line or bad flex hose could be blocking the fluid from appling the larger rear brakes.

#3 This should be #1, but most times a problem develops after an improper repair. ( Always look where the last guy worked )

You need someone familiar with hydro boosters, to see if it's adjusted properly and not holding the master cylinder from retracting all the way.

Good luck
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:35 AM   #21
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Thank you for the reply, according to cardone there is no adjustment, it should bolt right in. I didn't put all the info in the first post. The shop here in Dallas that put in the first master cylinder replaced the line from the mc to the porportioning valve but instead of using the flair fitting they used a compression w/o the feral and a reducer, just kind of stuffed the line in and tightened it down so it dripped but I couldn't see it because it was behind a frame member. On this trip as the brakes started to lock the pressure would bleed off through the leak so it wasn't obvious until you did lots of braking like through towns with stop lights. After I changed the second booster in colorado I jarred the line in the porportioning valve and it wouldn't hold fluid in the front reservoir. After the luck I had had I assumed it was the porportioning valve that had failed and one was not available locally so I drove the 800 miles home with only the back brakes. At home I fixed the line right and stopped the leak now when the brakes lock they don't ever release I have to Crack the line to the porportioning valve and bleed off the fluid until they release. That is why I replaced the mc again but no help still locks.
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:19 AM   #22
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You say you loosen the line at the proportioning valve. What happens If you loosen the line on the MC ? If it does not reliese the brakes, there could be a blockage in the valve.


If it reliesed at the MC, you could, as a test, shim the MC foward, a quarter inch or so, on the mounting studs. If a little extra clearance between parts makes a difference, there may be a parts miss match.

I hope you removed the compression fitting and used the proper inverted flair fittings that are required.
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Old 08-29-2016, 12:49 PM   #23
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Raise some stink about the micky mouse repair as that place can get someone killed down the road!
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Old 08-29-2016, 02:40 PM   #24
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This shop in Dallas was referred to me by a reputable RV dealer here. The entire experience was a nightmare. All I wanted was for them to bleed the back brakes because I couldn't get a wrench on the bleeders but sixteen days later and $1200 I had a new master cylinder. I have been looking at other forums and this is not just my problem it seems pretty common. I think I posted my comment in the wrong place, I am new to the forum and I kind of came in the back door. I will re-post in the appropiate place, thank you for your suggestions.
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Old 08-29-2016, 03:46 PM   #25
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I'm sorry but for those who believe that moisture does not get into brake fluid need to do a little research instead of simply dispensing an "opinion". Safety is always #1.

A small sampling of why you should flush brake fluid:

Why Change Brake Fluid
https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/1...to-be-changed/
Is brake flushing really necessary? | HowStuffWorks
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:48 PM   #26
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My first thought when I read the title of this thread was to tell the OP that if he lost his brakes, he should retrace his steps and look for them as we look for our keys or cell phone. IF that did not work, he could start at his tires, and work his way toward the engine looking for the lost brakes.

Then I read the thread, and a number of different things came to mind.

I agree with the advice that a collection of repairs, as this OP has related, all starts most often with an inappropriate or substandard repair. Something was done to this braking system that was wrong, and all the other repairs afterward are reacting to the symptoms, not the cause. At some point, you have to go back in time to the original repair, and re do it correctly.

As far as air and moisture in the brake fluid, I believe it is a semi sealed system.

In newer vehicles, there is a plastic translucent tank, that acts as the reservoir. On every one that I have seen, there is a round baffle that separates the air from the fluid, and the reason these tanks are translucent is so you can check the fluid level without exposing the surface of the fluid to the moisture in the air. There is a vent in the cap, so that when the fluid level drops, air can come into the tank, but it dose not do this much, nor enough to contaminate the fluid with too much moisture. Especially if the tank is not compromised.

On older ones, with the square metal reservoir on the master cylinder, those too have a baffle on the cap. It is a large rubber baffle with what look like a series of small cups built into it, that nest together. When the tank is full, these cups nest so they look like a series of rings, one on each section of the split tank. As the fluid level goes down, these cups expand, because there are air holes in the cap above this baffle, but it is sealed between the cap and wall of the tank. Most of us who have opened a master cylinder tank have had to re-nest these cups into the baffle when we fill fluid.

That whole system is designed to minimize and reduce the amount of fluid exposed to the moisture in the air. Again, when working as designed, it will mostly separate the fluid from the air and moisture in the air.

As far as air at the wheel cylinders or calipers, that is just silly. Any air at that end of the system is not supposed to be there. That is why we bleed brakes, to get that air out of the system. Once you bleed the brakes in a system, if you do not compromise that system by opening it up, you do not need to re bleed that system, because it is designed to not allow air in.

When you wear down the pads or shoes, the wheel cylinder or caliper will expand and use more fluid, which is why there is a reservoir in the first place. But if you know what you are doing, and replace your pads on a disk brake system, as an example, there is no need to open the fluid system, and therefore no need to bleed the brakes...

When the pads are worn, you use a clamp or other strong device to retract the caliper, and the fluid in it will return to the reservoir.

Anyone who has seen the fluid low and refilled it, then seen that the pads were worn, and tried to retract the calipers will attest to the fact that when you retract the calipers with a full reservoir, you will overfill it. When you collapse the calipers, and the system is not broken, any fluid that escapes will escape from the master cylinder reservoir.

If you have a system that allows air in and out of the wheel cylinders or calipers, you do not have a hydraulic system. The emergency brake on old cars was a cable system. It had an adjustment nut to take up the slack as the cable stretched. Since you can compress air, but not brake fluid, if you allowed air into and out of the working parts (cylinders, calipers) of the brakes, it would always be spongy.

This, at least, is how I understand the brakes to work.

And I have not lost my brakes, since the last time I fixed them, having replaced the master cylinder on my last two motor homes.
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-B View Post
I'm sorry but for those who believe that moisture does not get into brake fluid need to do a little research instead of simply dispensing an "opinion". Safety is always #1.

A small sampling of why you should flush brake fluid:

Why Change Brake Fluid
https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/1...to-be-changed/
Is brake flushing really necessary? | HowStuffWorks
Nick,

Did you read any of those articles? I read all three, and they do not say that moisture is a normal part of the brake fluid or that it regularly gets in. One even said that Chevy suggests that the brake fluid can last for 10 years or 150000 miles! All the articles said that the brakes are sealed systems.

They did say that moisture in the brake fluid can compromise the fluid, but moisture is not an regular contaminant into an un-maligned brake system.


By the way, I always thought that the dark color of brake fluid was a result of heat contamination more than anything else. Heat degradation is also the reason that many European manufacturers suggest brake systems be flushed from time to time.
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:26 PM   #28
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If you download a Ford motorhome service guide pdf, you will see, in Exceptions, that they recommend changing the brake fluid every two years, in Class A motorhomes.

They don't explain why, but it's there.

I Googled - fordservicecontent motorhome. I picked the 2013 motorhome link.

Its near the end on page 151 .
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