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Old 11-03-2009, 11:24 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD View Post
Admittedly, I haven't read ALL the flood of pages in this thread - still working my way thru them - so apologies if this was already covered - but my '88 Winnie also has the rear heater, with all the engine coolant plumbing. SO, where does the water flow to/from that rear heater fit into the engine thermostat cooling flow?

Does the rear flow to that heater essentially bypass the engine thermostat, compromising it's operation? As I mentioned further above, my own MH actually runs what I consider to be too COOL for proper engine operation, under all but the most heavily loaded pulling conditions - could that be because the rear heater coolant flow AROUND the thermostat is defeating, or at least limiting it's function and purpose?
The rear heater recieves the water off of the engine water pump, You might have the nice feature of preheating the hot water heater.

Where it dumps back into I have never looked, Now you see the reason of the installation of the "Stewart water pump".

According to "Stewart" a stock water pump flow 9 GPM at 1,000 RPM and his flows 19 GPM at 1,000 RPM, When you have a long run to the rear of the coach (including water heater) plus heating the front driving area that little stock pump might be fine for a car BUT NOT for big RVs...The coach front end heater is pretty high to boot.

Don't think the return line is flowing around the thermostat, Just check out the two lines for in/out locations.....

Someone may have dumped a 160 stat into your rig, On dyno pulls with a well warmed up engine we have found the power band is best between 180 and 190 and the amount of H.P. gain over 210 is hardly e'nuf to count....

Jim
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Old 11-03-2009, 04:04 PM   #170
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I sorta doubt the 160 T-stat - temp WILL go up to the normal range, and pretty well stay there, on the harder pulls - but then drop down towards the colder mark once normal road conditions return - guess I will get out the digital infrared thermometer on our next outing, and try for a better idea of what's going on.

I would sorta assume the rear heater coolant path would be much the same as the regular heater - but THEY are flow-controlled by the heat setting for the heater, whereas the rear one on our MH, must run full bore at all times, since the only operator control is over the fan speed on the rear heater. Seems like IF the rear heater coolant path IS around the thermostat, there SHOULD be a way to stop that flow when the rear heater isn't in use. And no - our MH water heater doesn't seem to have the engine coolant assist some do - at least I can't see any engine plumbing in that area, and can't find a tag on the water heater to verify exact model.

PLUS, in regards to proper coolant flow to/thru a heater, to be effective there needs to be a pressure drop to force the heated coolant thru the rear tubing, which would pretty much require that path to be AROUND the thermostat, for proper pressure differential in the heated coolant path, leastwise, I can't picture any other path that would provide anywhere near proper flow for the heater...

Just rambling musings from an old coot...
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:58 PM   #171
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I have the same heater in my rig, i`d have to pull the dog house to see just how it`s plumbed in but i think it is tee`d into the heater hoses. One goes directly into the rad which prob is a return line.
No way to shut off the flow only the pull cable on the rear heater that makes it by pass the water heater if ya want.
That`s all i can add about that.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:22 PM   #172
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I have the same heater in my rig, i`d have to pull the dog house to see just how it`s plumbed in but i think it is tee`d into the heater hoses. One goes directly into the rad which prob is a return line.
No way to shut off the flow only the pull cable on the rear heater that makes it by pass the water heater if ya want.
That`s all i can add about that.
I think you are probably correct on the rear heater water path - I suspect the hot engine coolant is picked off at a point between the water pump output and the thermostat - a fluid hi-pressure point, and returned as you say, either to the radiator, or a point immediately before it - a low pressure point. IF the heater takeoff point was AFTER the thermostat, that would be between it and the radiator - a LOW PSI point, and not a good spot to provide force for the heated water back to the rear heater, I would think.

If that's the case, that's a pretty significant coolant flow to be traveling AROUND the thermostat - the lines on my MH look pretty large - especially in comparison with the actual cross section of flow that the thermostat provides. I do know that under relatively flat road travel, and with the temp gauge running at the usual lower point on the scale, there's precious LITTLE warm air available at the vents - until we hit a grade, and the temp climbs...

Sure looks like Jim may be correct - and either we need a different thermostat, or else a way to control coolant flow to that rear heater.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:38 PM   #173
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Have you checked to see if some has removed the thermostat all together ?
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:44 PM   #174
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I have the same heater in my rig, i`d have to pull the dog house to see just how it`s plumbed in but i think it is tee`d into the heater hoses. One goes directly into the rad which prob is a return line.
No way to shut off the flow only the pull cable on the rear heater that makes it by pass the water heater if ya want.
That`s all i can add about that.
I've seen water hose type shut-off valves on the plumbing for the front cab heater but never ask about them....Perhaps the hot water trickles past the heater control and when it heats the cab during the hot summer travel months and people will do anything to cool off

Jim
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:10 PM   #175
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Have you checked to see if some has removed the thermostat all together ?
I seriously doubt it - actually, the REAR heater seems to put out more heat than the front one - which sorta reinforces my suspicion that the flow of hot coolant is diverted to the rear heater around the thermostat, and compromising both the proper operation of the thermostat, as well as the front heater - and not allowing the engine to run at a proper operational temperature unless heavily loaded.

BUT, unless I'm dead wrong - or someone has screwed around with this particular MH, I can't imagine any manufacturer putting out a setup like that...

NAHHhhh - I must be wrong...

Back to the drawing board!
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:33 AM   #176
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I have to run out the door to work, but I'll mention a couple of things to consider:
If the centrifugal advance is not working properly inside the distributor, it can cause lower power, running hotter than it should, and lower fuel mileage.
The EGR valve puts exhaust gasses into the engine to reburn them, but it also cools the temp in the combustion chamber, reducing pinging.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:32 AM   #177
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I have to run out the door to work, but I'll mention a couple of things to consider:
If the centrifugal advance is not working properly inside the distributor, it can cause lower power, running hotter than it should, and lower fuel mileage.
The EGR valve puts exhaust gasses into the engine to reburn them, but it also cools the temp in the combustion chamber, reducing pinging.
In my case i`ve checked the advances and all are working properly.
Gary, i`m real interested what`s different about your 88 than my 85 that makes yours run that cool in those conditions you mentioned.
Does yours have two other radiators in front of the engine rad ?
Also is yours running full manifold vacuum to the distributor or ported ?
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:00 PM   #178
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In my case i`ve checked the advances and all are working properly.
Gary, i`m real interested what`s different about your 88 than my 85 that makes yours run that cool in those conditions you mentioned.
Does yours have two other radiators in front of the engine rad ?
Also is yours running full manifold vacuum to the distributor or ported ?
Mine has only the engine coolant radiator, and the A/C condenser radiator - an aftermarket tranny cooler would undoubtedly be a good addition as well - dunno if these GM power trains have any tranny cooler upgrade built into the radiator, as compared to passenger vehicles, or not...

For clarity, here's a pair of pics of my MH radiator area - disregard the slight discoloration visible at the top area of the A/C condenser - that's just an oily area covered with road dust - wipes right off, as it has near the oil fill and dipstick area. There's NO sign of coolant boil-over or leakage to be seen anywhere:






Not sure of your "ported vacuum" question - mine is the OEM setup, where there is a vacuum junction fitting that screws into the intake manifold, and as I recall, several different vacuum lines come from that attachment point, including the distributor.

As can be seen in the above pics, I have completely rewired the headlights, using 10 ga. wire direct from the battery and thru relays - I have the lights setup so that both hi and low beams are on in the "hi" position, and all filaments connected - and only the lo lights when the lo beams are selected - lotsa light for better night time travel in our heavy deer, elk and antelope populated area!

At some point. I'll detail that frontal area around the radiator, done quite a bit already - but other more important priorities keep interfering!
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:58 PM   #179
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UF-DA check out those fans is therea clutch fan or other on the engine side of the radiator also ?
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:46 AM   #180
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Gary fill us in about those fans, is that a factory set -up, what other fan does it have. What temp do the elect. fan kick in at, no wonder it runs so cool.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:50 PM   #181
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Gary fill us in about those fans, is that a factory set -up, what other fan does it have. What temp do the elect. fan kick in at, no wonder it runs so cool.
The electric fans are OEM, as displayed on the sticker attached to them - apparently came on the rig as new, there's still the "stock" fan with it's clutch setup on the engine - which all seems to be functioning perfectly by the way.

Dunno what temp the electrics are set for, only been on briefly several times on the steeper, longer grades in summer temps - didn't notice them coming on at all on those same grades in lower 80 degree temps. The electrics seem to come on at about straight up on the temp gauge as I recall, and don't stay on very long - they and the regular fan clutch seem to activate at nearly the same time.

Hope that helps.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:06 PM   #182
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The electric fans are OEM, as displayed on the sticker attached to them - apparently came on the rig as new, there's still the "stock" fan with it's clutch setup on the engine - which all seems to be functioning perfectly by the way.

Dunno what temp the electrics are set for, only been on briefly several times on the steeper, longer grades in summer temps - didn't notice them coming on at all on those same grades in lower 80 degree temps. The electrics seem to come on at about straight up on the temp gauge as I recall, and don't stay on very long - they and the regular fan clutch seem to activate at nearly the same time.

Hope that helps.
Ok, thanks
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