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Old 04-24-2013, 10:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by gt350ed View Post

So I bought a replacement and installed it today. At first, it seemed to do nothing. Then, all of a sudden I heard a click with the engine running AND shore power hooked up. I connected my volt meter to a ground and touched the positive probe to the ear on the isolator that goes to the storage batteries. It was reading 13.2 volts. WOOHOO!! The static voltage of the storage batteries earlier in the day was about 12.65v.

Since then, I have plugged and unplugged shore power and again had the engine running, but no click and the voltage reading from the storage batteries side of the isolator is 12. 6 volts+/-.

SO...I guess my question is...does the isolator turn itself off and on? And if so, what triggers it?

I would think that 12.6 volts on deep cycle golf cart batteries WOULD NOT represent a full charge. So I'm wondering if I still have something wrong, or maybe my NEW isolator stopped working after one click. I had earlier traced wires and there are no fuses to blow.

Do I have a problem? Heck if I can tell.
I think you need to slow down and go back and reevaluate your system. It may NOW be working correctly. Here is the writeup on how a BIRD works ... note (in the text) the battery voltage thresholds that the BIRD is monitoring and when the BIRD actually ties the batteries together. Also note the delays (the "D" in BIRD). Please also note that the BIRD is sensing voltage on different batteries depending on whether the engine is running. It doesn't ALWAYS connect the bats together nor is it immediately. You may need to read everything a few times (I know I did) because there are very subtle differences in operation. These differences and the delays cause different voltage readings as you are trouble shooting.

How It Works

The BIRD operates in conjunction with a continuous duty solenoid to provide the isolator/battery charging functions of a motor home. It senses voltage on the coach and chassis batteries. If the voltage on either one is
above 13.1 volts, indicating the battery is being charged, it closes the isolator relay, paralleling the batteries, charging both. It operates in two directions, charging the batteries from the engine alternator and charging the batteries from the converter. These functions are similar but operate at different thresholds.

Engine Alternator Charging the Batteries

When the ignition switch is turned on and the engine is running, the system senses the level of voltage on the chassis 12 volt system. When this voltage goes above 13.1 volts for approximately 2.5 minutes, as happens when the engine is running normally (normal alternator output voltage of a cold engine is approximately 14.4 volts), it will close the isolator relay providing charging current to the battery. This delay allows a cold engine an opportunity to start and warm up before having the heavy load of a discharged coach battery placed on it.
If the voltage should fall below 12 volts for more than about 1 minute, the relay will drop out to feed all the alternators available output to the chassis battery to keep the engine running. This might happen when the
alternator is not able to supply sufficient current to all of the loads and charge the coach battery at the same time. When the chassis voltage goes above 13.1 volts again, the relay will again close in about 2.5 minutes to retry to charge the battery. The resultant flickering of lights would alert the driver of the system overload.

Converter Charging the Batteries

When the coach is plugged into shore power and the ignition is off, the unit senses the voltage on the coach batteries. When this voltage goes above 13.1 volts for approximately 2.5 minutes, as happens when the
converter isn't heavily loaded, it will close the isolator relay providing charging current to the battery. If the voltage should fall below 12.6 volts for more than about 1 minute, the relay will drop out to prevent the
coach loads from discharging the chassis battery. This might happen when the converter is heavily loaded by coach loads. When the coach battery voltage goes above 13.1 volts again, the relay will again close in about 2.5
minutes to retry to charge the battery.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:34 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by gt350ed View Post

This week, I have ordered a Cole Hersee isolator similar to the one on the right. It will be delivered this Friday or so. At a discounted price of $101.00, it is presumably a MUCH better unit. And this Cole Hersee isolator is designed to work most appropriately with CS series Delco alternators, which is what I have.
.
Are you aware that the Cole Hersee Isolator is a solid state device that does not provide the SAME functions as a BIRD and it's associated solenoid nor is the wiring the same? You may want to find a description of the Cole Hersee Isolator function before changing what you have.

The Cole Hersee "Smart Battery Isolator" is more like the BIRD in function ... the regular Isolator (as in the picture you referenced) is quite different.

This is the Smart Battery Isolator:

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:09 AM   #17
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To all who have reached out to assist me thru Post #16, I am most grateful.
As "Bruceisla" posted, I need to slow down and go back and re-evaluate my system. You folks have given me lots of homework to do so I'm going to go do it and then get back to you. This will take a few days at least what with other life distractions. But I'm motivated to solve this.

I'll be back soon. And thanks again for your experienced suggestions so far.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:31 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by gt350ed View Post
To all who have reached out to assist me thru Post #16, I am most grateful.
As "Bruceisla" posted, I need to slow down and go back and re-evaluate my system. You folks have given me lots of homework to do so I'm going to go do it and then get back to you. This will take a few days at least what with other life distractions. But I'm motivated to solve this.

I'll be back soon. And thanks again for your experienced suggestions so far.
Good morning Ed. Armed with a meter and some new info I'm sure you will find whatever, if anything, is not working correctly.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #19
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On another thread (Chassis Battery not charging) you indicated you also have a Cole Hersee diode based isolator. Was that stock on your rig? If so, then that most likely will change some things. The AUX relay would act only as a engine start assist. The alternator would provide coach and chassis battery charging via the Cole Hersee isolator however, the converter would not charge the chassis battery. The Cole Hersee is a one way street. It does not use the AUX Start relay to perform the dual battery charging.

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Old 04-25-2013, 04:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave78Chief View Post
On another thread (Chassis Battery not charging) you indicated you also have a Cole Hersee diode based isolator. Was that stock on your rig? If so, then that most likely will change some things. The AUX relay would act only as a engine start assist. The alternator would provide coach and chassis battery charging via the Cole Hersee isolator however, the converter would not charge the chassis battery. The Cole Hersee is a one way street. It does not use the AUX Start relay to perform the dual battery charging.

Dave
Hi Dave! Actually, what I said on that other thread was "I just ordered this this morning."

I have not received it yet. It's due to be delivered tomorrow. So, no it was NOT stock on my rig. The 3-terminal isolator (or whatever it is) came stock. Since receiving feedback, yours included, my intent is to perform all the tracing and voltmeter checks that have been suggested, to find out if the replacement 3-terminal that I put on last weekend is working. As I mentioned previously, it clicked once shortly after installation and provided me with an indication that I had charging to the storage batteries. Something I had not had previously. At that point, I thought my problem was solved. Unfortunately, it never clicked again.

This Cole Hersee is the one I ordered. Admittedly, it was a knee-jerk reaction as a result of thinking that the 3-terminal solenoid type isolator had maybe failed after installation. I'm aware there are differences if I decide to use the diode version.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:36 PM   #21
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Hi Dave! Actually, what I said on that other thread was "I just ordered this this morning."

I have not received it yet. It's due to be delivered tomorrow. So, no it was NOT stock on my rig. The 3-terminal isolator (or whatever it is) came stock. Since receiving feedback, yours included, my intent is to perform all the tracing and voltmeter checks that have been suggested, to find out if the replacement 3-terminal that I put on last weekend is working. As I mentioned previously, it clicked once shortly after installation and provided me with an indication that I had charging to the storage batteries. Something I had not had previously. At that point, I thought my problem was solved. Unfortunately, it never clicked again.

This Cole Hersee is the one I ordered. Admittedly, it was a knee-jerk reaction as a result of thinking that the 3-terminal solenoid type isolator had maybe failed after installation. I'm aware there are differences if I decide to use the diode version.
Hi Ed, for sake of clarity, the "3-Terminal Isolator" is normally just called an "Isolator Relay" or "Isolator Solenoid" ... this is a term recognized by most folks. The BIRD or IRD is the solid state device that controls the Isolator Relay. The Cole Hersee Isolator is a solid state (diode) device that provides some of the function of a BIRD plus an Isolator Relay. Specifically, the Cole Hersee Isolator provides a method of charging both Chassis and House batteries from the engine alternator ... it DOES NOT provide a method of charging the Chassis and House batteries from Shore Power and/or the Genset.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:51 PM   #22
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If you can please get some pictures of whats under the hood and the coach DC distribution panel. Many of the DC distribution assemblies have the converter built into them. Trying to get clues that will help you sort all this out.
Oh, have you asked any of these "how is this thing wired" questions on the IRV2 Fleetwood (Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum - iRV2 Forums) or Bounder (Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum - iRV2 Forums) Forums? Thats were people with your specific rig typically are.

Dave
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:45 PM   #23
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If you can please get some pictures of whats under the hood and the coach DC distribution panel. Many of the DC distribution assemblies have the converter built into them. Trying to get clues that will help you sort all this out.

Dave
Here you go Dave. This is a photo of the Isolator Relay and the "unmarked" black box. I've concluded that it is unmarked because there was probaly a sticker on the face years ago that has fallen off. Today, I removed the four screws. Inside is a circuit board with the description "Battery Isolator Control". BINGO! So...what does it do and how do I know it's working?

Also, the wires coming out of it actually pass BEHIND the Relay. I have not traced them. MAYBE some of them come back to the Relay. Don't know yet.

I'm also attaching a photo of my Distribution Panel. It is a Magnatek Model 80. I believe the convertor/charger is built in behind it or to the side, but I'm not sure. There are vents beneath the cabinet that house it for whatever that's worth. OR...it could be located elsewhere. I've never seen it. But then I've only owned this coach for 24 years.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:09 AM   #24
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BCC - over in the Bounder forum (Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum - iRV2 Forums) there is a thread (Isolator solenoid) about the isolator solenoid that contains a link to the defacto RV Custom Products BCC Troubleshooting document. You will need to take the cover back off and locate the Model number of your BCC board. You need that to determine what functions (besides controlling the solenoid) it performs.
Even with that said, I should add they may have also used a Intelletek device instead. So, the MFG Name and Model Number printed on the board is needed to go further.

Magnatek Model 80 (http://www.parallaxpower.com/Dist_Pa...n%20Panels.pdf): This is only the distribution panel. You most likely have a Magnatek Model 7200 converter (PPS Legacy Products). It is most likely mounted on the floor behind the AC/DC distribution panel. The 2 red wires attached to the top of the DC board should lead you right back to the converter.

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Old 04-26-2013, 08:14 AM   #25
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If used, the Intelletek Battery Isolator Board P/N would most likely be 00-00131-000 (http://www.flemingsalesoem.com/intel...300131.000.pdf)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RV-Intellite...-/160909861568

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Old 04-26-2013, 08:32 AM   #26
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BCC - over in the Bounder forum (Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum - iRV2 Forums) there is a thread (Isolator solenoid) about the isolator solenoid that contains a link to the defacto RV Custom Products BCC Troubleshooting document. You will need to take the cover back off and locate the Model number of your BCC board. You need that to determine what functions (besides controlling the solenoid) it performs.
Even with that said, I should add they may have also used a Intelletek device instead. So, the MFG Name and Model Number printed on the board is needed to go further.

Magnatek Model 80 (http://www.parallaxpower.com/Dist_Pa...n%20Panels.pdf): This is only the distribution panel. You most likely have a Magnatek Model 7200 converter (PPS Legacy Products). It is most likely mounted on the floor behind the AC/DC distribution panel. The 2 red wires attached to the top of the DC board should lead you right back to the converter.

Dave
I think we're going astray a bit. I checked the Bounder forum and read that thread "Isolator Solenoid". It has nothing to do with my coach. The OPs coach is a 1997 on a Ford Chassis. Mine is a 1990 GM chassis. Tghe Troubleshooting document is not a schematic for my system.

Also, I do not seem to have a "BCC" (Battery Control Center). I'm thinking those came later. I just have what's in the photo and maybe some circuit breakers, below which are the batteries. I'm really needing to know what that black box does, and how to know/check if it is working.

I agree with you that I most likely have a 7200 Convertor. But I believe it is in the area of the Distribution Panel which is ABOVE the dinette in a fake cabinet, as opposed to on the floor. I am going to do some further checking but, as I mentioned previously, I believe the Convertor is working.

I'm of the opinion that whatever problem I may or may not have now that I've replaced the Isolator Relay, is either due to my lack of understanding as to how things work....or the problem is at the front of the coach in the dash panel area or out front under the hood in the battery area.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:34 AM   #27
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If used, the Intelletek Battery Isolator Board P/N would most likely be 00-00131-000 (http://www.flemingsalesoem.com/intel...300131.000.pdf)

RV Intellitec Battery Isolator Controller 00 00131 000 New | eBay

Dave
While you were posting, I was replying to your previous post. I'm studying the link above. It appears to be exactly what I have. Thanks.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:45 AM   #28
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If used, the Intelletek Battery Isolator Board P/N would most likely be 00-00131-000 (http://www.flemingsalesoem.com/intel...300131.000.pdf)

RV Intellitec Battery Isolator Controller 00 00131 000 New | eBay

Dave
Thank you Dave. This information will be REALLY HELPFUL regarding the Battery Isolator Controller and how it functions and where each wire goes. It appears to be exactly like the one I have, including the referenced dash lights. I'm bringing the rig to the house tomorrow. I have a lot of voltmeter work to do thanks to you guys. I'm very appreciative.
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