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Old 07-13-2015, 11:48 AM   #169
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Surprised you didn't go with urethane rigid foam (pink sheets). It tends to be more stable, as well as highly water resistant. Because it is rigid, if glued to the interior wall, it will add stiffness tot he wall.
I know... but I stayed away from pink and blue board for the same reason I stayed away from the closed cell polyurethane spray foam - price. If I had a higher level of confidence that my new wall panels were going to work, I would have probably just spent the money on the spray foam and been done with it... but I still have a little fear in me that I may have rebuilt the engine just to drive the thing to the scrap yard... I know that's probably not realistic.

That said... I think the real key is to keep the water from getting through in the first place. Even if I had used the spray foam, water could have infiltrated between the foam and the new panels, thus destroying the new panels over time. I think the polystyrene will do a good job if I can manage to seal everything up tight. I'll probably start to run a dehumidifier inside the rv if we ever finish this up... especially after trips and such...

Thanks to all for the encouragement and advice. It really helps...

-cheers
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:16 AM   #170
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Question About Contact Adhesive:

So while I'm tinkering with the insulation... I'm trying to line up sources for materials to construct the panels from. Lets start with the contact adhesive. Has anyone used the stuff in the picture below... or know anything about it as far as whether it would be good to use for laminating aluminum to luan or plywood? Says it bonds aluminum... I found it HERE.

It's seems to be a good price. I'd basically be laminating two panels 4' x 32' which is 256 square feet... but then I'd have to spray adhesive on both the aluminum and the luan so to cover 512 square feet (one side of rv) I'd need probably 3 gallons? I'd probably just buy 5 since shipping is pricey (Haz-Mat), and since I'll probably trowel it on which is likely to use a bit more.

Anyways... if anyone has any thoughts or insight I'd appreciate it.

-cheers

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Old 07-14-2015, 05:23 AM   #171
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We used formica cement. It's been way too long ago to remember much in the way of specifics, though I can tell you we rolled it on.
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Old 07-14-2015, 06:48 AM   #172
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3M 5200. Not sure how many times I've heard marine guys complain when someone has used 5200 to install something that could later need repair, because it is impossible to remove. You'd probably want the fast dry version, as otherwise it takes weeks to fully cure.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:28 PM   #173
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3M 5200. Not sure how many times I've heard marine guys complain when someone has used 5200 to install something that could later need repair, because it is impossible to remove. You'd probably want the fast dry version, as otherwise it takes weeks to fully cure.
This appears to be a caulk and not so much a contact adhesive? I'll keep it in mind for sealing the seams for sure.

Almost ordered a roll of aluminum today... but decided I wasn't ready...

-cheers
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:33 PM   #174
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Piker,

Thinking about you trying to applying luan to aluminum then hanging it on the side seams like a daunting task -I like the idea of laying it over on its side and applying it that way - in my mind I see applying luan then glueing aluminum to that - my experience with contact adhesive I'm thinking you could roll material up long way with roll sitting on something maybe 3 or 4 foot up the side of MH. Start at bottom with glueing the first 3 feet. Make some rub boards out of 2x4s covered with carpet -probably the hardest thing will be to start off straight ( maybe with a string line on bottom - could even build a ledge for the aluminum to set on - never liked any of the latex based contact adhesive but the good stuff is pretty flammable and the fumes may cause you to leave on the MH before you get the sides on

Would be best to roll glue on - doesn't take a lot just good even coats on both sides -then let it flash off until glue doesn't transfer to touch - better have it where you want it when it touches - glue about 3ft wide each time rubbing down from middle each time.

Hope this doesn't confuse you more but if I were your neighbor I promise we would stick that baby up there

Just old flooring man - pabell
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:49 PM   #175
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Pabell,

It does seem like a daunting task. Of course, pulling a 1200 lb engine out from underneath the rv seemed like a daunting task too, and at one point I almost gave up because it seemed so overwhelming...

At first, I thought about laying the aluminum on the luan too, as I also have a bit of a construction background in my family, and if you were doing a counter top or something, that's how it would be done... but this is a 32 foot long piece of aluminum, and it's going to be awkward to handle. It seems to me that if the aluminum is on the floor, and you're only handling a 4 X 8 sheet of luan at a time, that you'd have more control. The luan is actually quite flexible, so you would kind of be able to "unroll" it onto the aluminum instead of just setting it down flat. Seems if you just sat it down flat you'd get air pockets underneath.

I think by using the suction cups mentioned earlier in the thread, and some small pulleys hung off the trusses in the garage... that it shouldn't be to bad to handle the finished panel. They're actually not very heavy... just awkward. I removed the old panels myself without any help... and without adding additional damage to the aluminum. And of course when the panels go back up, they just get riveted on... no glue.

My biggest fear is just being able to get the panel laminated flat without screwing up a $500 piece of aluminum, $100 worth of glue, and $100 worth of wood. Like you said... better have everything where I want it when the adhesive touches.

I had also thought about using 2 layers of an 1/8' substrate of some sort... and overlapping the seams by 1/2 a sheet. This would help prevent the panel from trying to buckle at the ends of the sheets and putting creases in the aluminum. The aluminum is pretty rigid though... so I don't think this will be an issue anyways. The old panels are actually hard to crease. Plus... it would be twice the contact adhesive...

I've also been trying to decide if I should use luan, or perhaps just regular plywood. The plywood I could just get at the local Home Depot... the stuff with one sanded side is about $24 per sheet... Both are pretty much sponges for moisture. I'm thinking I should probably treat whatever I use with some sort of protective coating? Could get expensive though... I dunno...

At any rate... this is the state of our current RV affairs... not sure when I'll feel comfortable moving forward with any more purchases, but for now I have probably a couple weeks worth of insulating to take care of on the passenger side.

-cheers
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:57 PM   #176
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You're doing the entire coach, or just the driver's side? If just the drivers side, the longest piece will be the distance from the entrance door back?

I once saw a guy laying formica on a large counter top - by himself. After spreading the glue to both surfaces, he placed wooden dowels on the surface of the bench, maybe 18" apart. He then layed the formica on the dowels. This allowed him to line up the materials, making sure the formica was lined up on the bench, not running off at an angle. Then, starting in the center, he pulled the dowels one at a time, allowing the 2 glued surfaces to touch and bond in a very controlled manner. The dowels, because there was no glue on them, were easily pulled.

I made the mistake of unrolling a sheet of alum directly onto the side of a coach one time. The resulting wrinkle forced a re-do.

We ended up hanging it from the top, so we could align it, then removing shims we had placed strategically to hold the metal away from the wall until we were ready. It worked, but not sure I have the guts to ever try that again.

Tossing ideas, -Al
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:22 AM   #177
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You're doing the entire coach, or just the driver's side? If just the drivers side, the longest piece will be the distance from the entrance door back?
Right now, I'm just concentrating on the top panel of the passenger side. The entry door is actually 12" or so below the roof line, so this panel extends from the rear all the way to the front of the rv. The lower panel is broken up by the door, but both the upper and lower panels would be attached full length, and then I'll use a router to cut out the windows and doors. If the passenger side goes good, I'd like to do the driver's side as well. It's in just as bad of shape as the passenger side was.

I have given thought to an attempt at reusing the upper aluminum panels that I removed since those were not in as bad a shape as the lower panels... it would save me $1100 in aluminum (over $500 each side), but there are some drawbacks:

1) The new aluminum that I'm looking at does not have paint on it. It's actually polished on one side like an Airstream. We wanted to see what the RV would look like with shiny aluminum, and if we liked it, then I'd only have to paint the fiberglass end caps, some stripes, and maybe the roof. This would save some work and some money. If I refurbish the upper panels, I'd then be forced to paint everything... which I guess I might end up having to do anyways... especially after I see how much work it is to care for a bare aluminum surface...

2) The other drawback is that I have no idea how to get the contact adhesive and the little bit of luan that is still stuck to it off the back of the old panel. No chemicals seem to cut the adhesive... and removal by mechanical means doesn't seem to work well either. Not to mention there are holes in the aluminum that would have to be filled with duraglass or some sort of filler.

I dunno... It's probably just best to go with new aluminum... it's just that the thought of scrapping a new sheet of aluminum this size is a little scary. The other thing that stinks is that 1/3 of the aluminum for the upper panel gets thrown out. It only comes in 4 foot wide coils, and the uppers are only 32" wide...

choices... choices... choices...

-cheers
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:34 AM   #178
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Piker,

I think you would be better using some type of exterior latex adhesive that would give you more work time and the ability to make adjustments, just like hanging a piece of wallpaper, it would give you time to rub out any air pockets and wouldn't grab instantly

Would only need to add a few screws or rivets to hold in place to allow glue to set. It may take a few days for glue to completely dry but you would only have to apply glue to luan, not both sides -aluminum / luan

I think I would try with a few scrap pieces to be sure adhesive held to aluminum like it should.

Have no doubt you will figure this out and i admire the work you have already done - rebuilding engine was MAJOR - you got this!!

Have a blessed day - pabell
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:07 AM   #179
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New Exterior Siding

If I were doing this, I would compare cost, process, tooling, etc. of using a composite material to replace the lauan plywood found on older RVs. One product is Azdel from www.hanwhaazdel.com. I'm sure there are others, but I have seen this brand advertised in new RVs. Most of their products seem to come in enormous sizes for OEMs, but they do sell 4x8 sheets that look like a direct replacement for 1/4" lauan.



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Old 07-15-2015, 07:13 AM   #180
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Hello Piker. Just a suggestion on your insulation on walls. Are you planning on using the seam sealing tape like used on house wrap (Tyvek)? Even if you are using spray foam around the edges of your foam board, that spray foam is only air proof and water proof in its original sprayed state. In other words, if you trim or cut it, it looses its seal. Hope that makes sense.

ronspradley

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Old 07-15-2015, 05:17 PM   #181
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If I were doing this, I would compare cost, process, tooling, etc. of using a composite material to replace the lauan plywood found on older RVs. One product is Azdel from www.hanwhaazdel.com. I'm sure there are others, but I have seen this brand advertised in new RVs. Most of their products seem to come in enormous sizes for OEMs, but they do sell 4x8 sheets that look like a direct replacement for 1/4" lauan.



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Thanks for the link. I have been trying to track down some composite sheets for this project for a while... problem is, I have been unable to find anyone in the business who will talk to me. It seems like most of the composite stuff is being sold directly to manufacturers, and the DIY crowd is not part of their target market. I did find one place that would sell this particular sheet for $39 each... but the minimum order was 125 sheets.

I think luan will be the substrate here. I guess if the original panels lasted 20 years, maybe the ones I build will last as long... maybe longer since the RV is garage kept. Of course you wonder what shape the rest of the RV is in after 20 years too...

-cheers
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:27 PM   #182
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Hello Piker. Just a suggestion on your insulation on walls. Are you planning on using the seam sealing tape like used on house wrap (Tyvek)? Even if you are using spray foam around the edges of your foam board, that spray foam is only air proof and water proof in its original sprayed state. In other words, if you trim or cut it, it looses its seal. Hope that makes sense.

ronspradley

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Thanks for the suggestion... I was under the impression that true closed cell foam was indeed waterproof as each individual bubble of gas in the foam is contained, whereas in open cell foam the bubbles are more or less connected. I do know there are different densities of closed cell foam... the denser varieties being the most waterproof. I have also seen spray foam used in direct contact with the ground to insulate hot water lines for boiler systems between houses... water infiltration was never an issue with the foam, and believe me, wet foam in an underground heat transfer system would not be a good thing at all.

I think great stuff is supposed to be closed cell, but not sure. That said... I guess at this point I'm not going to worry a whole lot about the waterproof nature of my insulation. At the end of the day, if water gets behind the siding... something's going to get ruined... I think it's more important to make sure the seams are sealed properly. At least that's what I'm guessing...

-cheers
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