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Old 07-25-2015, 07:34 PM   #197
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I think you can use the old panel to drill the new one. There are two ways that I can think of. First you can use the original holes and clecos to hold every thing in place. You will need to use some full size fasteners to aline the holes. Clecos are not full size.
The other is to drill your new holes offset from the old by an inch or so.
What size rivets were in it to start with? You could go up one size and it wouldn't make that much difference.
ahicks, I built and repaired airplanes for over 40 years. My last job was in final assembly on the F-35. Most airplanes are built in modules vertically then fitted together horizontally. The same for wings.
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:40 PM   #198
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Piker another tool to keep everything aligned is to use double back tape. You can remove it before your final install.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:58 PM   #199
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Piker another tool to keep everything aligned is to use double back tape. You can remove it before your final install.
Bill
May want to leave the tape on if it's double sided polypropylene to eliminate the galvanic corrosion from the aluminum panel and the steel superstructure. Certainly need to pay attention to the rivet/fastener you will use so it doesn't act to increase that corrosion. JMHO
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:43 AM   #200
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Thanks for the suggestions Wildebill... I have never used clecos before. I wonder if there are clecos big enough to fit the existing holes?

One thing I was thinking though, quite a few of the existing rivet holes were drilled right into the center of the "I" on the I-beam shaped aluminum framing. It's almost like the rivets were in a blind hole. Doesn't seem right... maybe they should be moved anyways cause I don't think I can even get the old rivets out without oblonging the holes.

I've also been considering trying to find a wider trim piece for between the upper and lower panels. The existing trim only has 1 row of rivets that holds both the upper and lower panels from in between (see first drawing). I think it would be better if I could use a wider strip with 2 rows of rivets that engage each panel directly instead of just sandwiching the panel between the aluminum track and the framing, (see 2nd drawing)... though I'm not sure such a strip even exists.

The best solution to prevent water infiltration might be to completely do away with the trim piece, and just overlap the upper panel aluminum down over the lower panel (see 3rd drawing) with 2 rows of rivets... but leaving 1/2" of aluminum hanging out from the upper panel seems like it would get bent or damaged easily during assembly of the panels.

I dunno... lots of variables to consider here. It can get a little overwhelming at times trying to figure all this out, but again, I'm hoping the view is worth the climb with all this. Time will tell.

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Old 07-26-2015, 05:55 AM   #201
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As far as corrosion of the fasteners is concerned... this has certainly been an issue. The rotting luan of course produced acid that ate away at both the siding and the rivets... and there is steel framing at the front of the rv and at the bottom of the walls that the panels attach directly to. The rivets in these areas were almost all completely shot when we bought the rv almost 3 years ago. I replaced the rivets at the bottom 2 years ago, but the luan was pretty much non existant down there, which made the seam look kinda bad...

Wow, now that I mention it... I can't believe it's been 3 years since we bought this! I spent the first year just fixing... the 2nd year we took 3 great trips - 1 out west and 2 to Florida... and now the 3rd year fixing again. So far the ratio of time spent under the rv as opposed to in it rolling down the highway is not good. Makes me question whether it's worth it or not... but I guess at this point I'm so deep into it, that the only real option is to keep looking forward. Hopefully better days are ahead...

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Old 07-26-2015, 06:08 AM   #202
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Wow, now that I mention it... I can't believe it's been 3 years since we bought this! I spent the first year just fixing... the 2nd year we took 3 great trips - 1 out west and 2 to Florida... and now the 3rd year fixing again.
... and I'm guessing it will be at least another year... maybe more... before I can finish this entire project. At times, the thought of it taking that long is discouraging, but I think that one day I'll look back at the whole thing and thank God for all of it... for both the good we enjoyed and the difficulty we endured...

-cheers
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Old 07-26-2015, 06:30 AM   #203
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I think that horizontal seam overlap would be a great plan if you can figure out how to do it.
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Old 07-26-2015, 09:05 AM   #204
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If the material is wide enough for an overlap then it is simple.

Call out to your local hvac/sheet metal places and have them roll an edge on it.

Simple machine that does it and should be inexpensive.

One could use that as a holding or alignment tool by temp install of something below to represent the bottom sheet or install the bottom sheet first.
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Old 07-26-2015, 01:57 PM   #205
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Well, regardless of how I end up making the panels or installing them... the insulation is officially done and all the excess is trimmed off flush with the framing. It already looks better...

If I'm going to try and overlap the siding like in the drawing above, I will probably have to install the bottom panel first. If that's the case, then the next step is to repair the storage compartment framing behind the rear tires since the storage doors are attached with the same rivets as the bottom of the bottom panel. I've been procrastinating this particular part of the project, but I guess i have to tackle it sometime. I suppose this will give me time to save for the contact adhesive, plywood, and other rolls of aluminum.

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Old 07-26-2015, 03:26 PM   #206
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What size holes are you talking about? Clecos come in a variety of sizes commonly available from 1/8 to 1/4. I am guessing you have rivet holes around 5/32-3/16. They are installed and removed with a tool that looks like a pair of plyers. They have a spring inside that applies a clamping force to the material.
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Old 07-26-2015, 03:28 PM   #207
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That insulation job looks great.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:37 PM   #208
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Question about the plywood you are going to use. Are you going to make up the plywood/aluminum panel first, as one piece, then hang it on side of MH? If that is the case, are you going to make up the plywood panel whole, then adhere the aluminum to it? If that is the way you are going to do it, I have a suggestion on how to keep the plywood panel edges together, depending on which plywood you use. If it is 1/4" material, nominal, then you can use a router rabbeting bit to make a half lap on each joining piece of plywood and glue that with waterproof glue like Titebond III or epoxy. Rabbet half depth of each overlapping piece and put those together. Sand that smooth and you will have a complete wood substrate, ready for the aluminum. Hope that make sense and maybe helps.

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Old 07-27-2015, 12:10 AM   #209
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Piker, I know this was mentioned before, but I think Tyvex would be a good thing!? Also, have you given thought to the expansion and contraction of the siding as is heats up in the day time and cools at night? Don't know if that is something to consider or not? As I remember from installing alum. siding on houses, you left the nails or screws loose and the siding was slotted to allow for this. Just throwing this out there, as I am not sure? The insulation job looks good! Rail!
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:13 AM   #210
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Question about the plywood you are going to use. Are you going to make up the plywood/aluminum panel first, as one piece, then hang it on side of MH? If that is the case, are you going to make up the plywood panel whole, then adhere the aluminum to it? If that is the way you are going to do it, I have a suggestion on how to keep the plywood panel edges together, depending on which plywood you use. If it is 1/4" material, nominal, then you can use a router rabbeting bit to make a half lap on each joining piece of plywood and glue that with waterproof glue like Titebond III or epoxy. Rabbet half depth of each overlapping piece and put those together. Sand that smooth and you will have a complete wood substrate, ready for the aluminum. Hope that make sense and maybe helps.

ronspradley

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Yes, the idea is to make two laminated panels on the garage floor, and then hang the panels on the side of the RV. Because the aluminum is 32' long, it's going to be awkward to handle... so instead of laying the aluminum down on the plywood, I'll lay the plywood down on the aluminum. I don't know that using a joint like you suggest would work well since I'm going about the lamination a little backwards... but it's a good thought.

One idea I had this morning was to perhaps try and use the old aluminum and laminate it to backside of the plywood. That would make a really strong panel... there are some issues though... For starters, the aluminum would have to be unrolled onto the new panel in the lamination process. I wouldn't have to worry about damaging the aluminum since it would be inside the wall, but you still wouldn't want any bubbles or kinks in it cause they would transfer their shape to the exterior.

It would also be twice the glue... and twice the chance of screwing up a panel... not to mention it would add about 200 pounds to the weight of the rv after both sides were done... which might not be a huge deal, but technically, the RV is already slightly over the rated gvw with full fluid tanks and 4 or 5 people on board. It's a 20,000 lb chassis, but weighs 18,500 empty... i don't know who thought that one up...

I suppose I could cut strips of aluminum to cover the joints, and to go around the windows, and to follow all of the studs/perlins... hmmmm...

Anyways... still thinking about all this. Like I said, I have some time to think and plan while I'm saving up for more materials. I don't think I'll end up using a house wrap... 2 schools of thought on that. One is that the house wrap would prevent water and air infiltration... the other is that you could trap moisture between the house wrap and the back of the exterior panel, which would eventually damage the panel. Maybe the best option is to allow some "breathing" of the walls so that when you run a dehumidifier inside the moisture can escape to the inside?

All for now. Thanks for all the suggestions and insight...

-cheers
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