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09-20-2015, 07:47 PM
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#295
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS
Posts: 2,744
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How thick is your new panel with/ including the frame under it?
What is the work life of the glue?
I know you are going to drill your new holes before you go up with the glue aren't you? So you can take it down and clean the shavings from between the mating surfaces.
Remember the link I sent you on vacuum bagging I would do some more reading on the subject so you will be ready to bond your aluminum to the plywood.
Have you looked at a pneumatic rivet puller?
Amazon.com: Astro PR14 Air Riveter: Home Improvement
You could sell it after you are done. It will save your hands that is a lot of rivets to pull by hand. I think this will work with your rivets but I would double check.
I know I forgot something but that's enough for tonight
Bill
__________________
2008 Newmar Mountain Aire
450 HP Cummins ISM 4000MH Allison Trans.
Towing a 2014 Honda CRV with a Blue Ox tow bar.
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09-21-2015, 02:52 AM
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#296
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,707
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Total thickness I'll be riveting through is about 5/16."
I'm going to forgo the vacuum bagging, as that seems more appropriate for situations where you are using an epoxy of some sort. I'll have about 10 minutes to work with the adhesive after it's sprayed. I will only be spraying an 8' section of the aluminum at a time, and one piece of plywood. Once tacked, I will lay the plywood over the aluminum with wooden dowels to position it... then pull the dowels out one at a time, and roll the plywood onto the aluminum. It's a one shot deal. Once the two adhesive surfaces touch, I won't be able to move them.
When the panel goes up onto the rv, there will be no glue involved... just rivets. This is how it was originally constructed. I don't think I'll have to worry about removing chip from between the panel and the insulation... they should all either fall outside the panel, or inside the studs.
-cheers
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09-21-2015, 06:25 AM
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#297
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Snowbird - Waterford Mi and Citrus Springs Fl.
Posts: 3,609
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You'll be using alum. rivets w/alum. mandrels for all the upper surfaces, then self drilling (TEK) screws along the floor line? Alum/alum. rivets aren't too bad to pull, and your framework above the floor line is alum. as well. Thinking bi-metallic corrosion. Metal rivets there may not be a good plan anyway.
Not sure what your plans are, but pop rivets exposed to the weather should have mandrel holes sealed. Only takes a second, and there will be no doubt regarding water intrusion afterward.
Geez, you're getting close. Best of luck!
__________________
1997 37' HR Endeavor, 275hp Cat, Freightliner
03 CR-V Blue Ox, Ready Brake
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09-21-2015, 06:33 AM
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#298
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahicks
You'll be using alum. rivets w/alum. mandrels for all the upper surfaces, then self drilling (TEK) screws along the floor line? Alum/alum. rivets aren't too bad to pull, and your framework above the floor line is alum. as well. Thinking bi-metallic corrosion. Metal rivets there may not be a good plan anyway.
Geez, you're getting close. Best of luck!
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The original panels used alum/alum rivets along the floor line as well. The fasteners in this area go through the exterior panel, through the hinges for the storage doors, and then into the steel frame.
The original rivets were basically gone along the bottom due to the steel/aluminum issue. Rivets seem like the best choice down there to reattach everything? Maybe not...? Stainless rivets a better choice?
-cheers
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09-21-2015, 09:14 AM
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#299
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Snowbird - Waterford Mi and Citrus Springs Fl.
Posts: 3,609
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I can share the fact some of the screws along the floor line of this coach have had to be changed due to rust. The heavy floor line molding they go through starts wobbling a little, and the hinges are not being supported properly. The screws that are removed in the process look more like nails! I've gone with the next size bigger stainless screws at this point (that seem to be working OK), but stainless rivets may not be a bad plan. -Al
__________________
1997 37' HR Endeavor, 275hp Cat, Freightliner
03 CR-V Blue Ox, Ready Brake
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09-21-2015, 04:16 PM
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#300
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahicks
I can share the fact some of the screws along the floor line of this coach have had to be changed due to rust. The heavy floor line molding they go through starts wobbling a little, and the hinges are not being supported properly. The screws that are removed in the process look more like nails! I've gone with the next size bigger stainless screws at this point (that seem to be working OK), but stainless rivets may not be a bad plan. -Al
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Do the stainless rivets require more "pull" than the aluminum ones? Should I be worried that the stainless rivets would pull so tight as to dimple the panel and sink into the wood?
It looks like stainless rivets are kind of expensive... like $.50 each? I can replace a lot of aluminum rivets for that price...
-cheers
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09-21-2015, 06:06 PM
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#301
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS
Posts: 2,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piker
Total thickness I'll be riveting through is about 5/16."
I'm going to forgo the vacuum bagging, as that seems more appropriate for situations where you are using an epoxy of some sort. I'll have about 10 minutes to work with the adhesive after it's sprayed. I will only be spraying an 8' section of the aluminum at a time, and one piece of plywood. Once tacked, I will lay the plywood over the aluminum with wooden dowels to position it... then pull the dowels out one at a time, and roll the plywood onto the aluminum. It's a one shot deal. Once the two adhesive surfaces touch, I won't be able to move them.
When the panel goes up onto the rv, there will be no glue involved... just rivets. This is how it was originally constructed. I don't think I'll have to worry about removing chip from between the panel and the insulation... they should all either fall outside the panel, or inside the studs.
-cheers
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Ok on the bagging. Best practice would be to take the panel down after it is drilled to remove chips and debris from between the panel and framing. I would have run a bead of something like Liquid nails on the framing before putting the panel up. You should be ok. I don't think you need stainless rivets. How long did the original aluminum rivets last?
I think you will be ok especially if you coat the rivets with sealant when you install them.
I still would try to buy, rent or borrow a pneumatic gun to pull the rivets that is a lot of rivets.
Bill
__________________
2008 Newmar Mountain Aire
450 HP Cummins ISM 4000MH Allison Trans.
Towing a 2014 Honda CRV with a Blue Ox tow bar.
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09-22-2015, 07:41 AM
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#302
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Snowbird - Waterford Mi and Citrus Springs Fl.
Posts: 3,609
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Stainless no doubt more difficult to pull. I was thinking of using stainless only to prevent corrosion along the floor line where you'll be fastening to the heavier steel framework there. Agree regarding the potential for the stainless rivets to deform the skin if used above that.
__________________
1997 37' HR Endeavor, 275hp Cat, Freightliner
03 CR-V Blue Ox, Ready Brake
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09-22-2015, 08:03 AM
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#303
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,707
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Yep... I think aluminum rivets will be just fine. I'll spin them into polyurethane caulk before installing them.
Benders got back to me and said to find some Toluene for cleaning up my paint gun after spraying the adhesive. I think I've seen that around...
-cheers
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09-22-2015, 06:03 PM
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#304
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,707
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Plywood is here... Just have to pick up some dowels and I'll have all the materials I need to put the first panel together.
So... I guess... here we go... all the time... all the money... all the heartache... in some ways it all comes down to what happens in the next few days...
-cheers
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09-23-2015, 06:26 PM
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#305
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,707
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Foam down... aluminum unrolled... taking my time... thinking this whole process through over and over again... hoping not to make any major mistakes...
-cheers
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09-23-2015, 07:56 PM
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#306
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Senior Member
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,786
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Looking good. What is the width of the aluminum? Does it cover all of a side (from top seam to seam on bottom where storage bays start) or does it go up in layers?
ronspradley
__________________
'95 Monaco Windsor DP 32' Cummins 5.9
Toads '96 Tracker 4x4, '06 Honda CRV AWD
Life's too short to drink diet soda.
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09-24-2015, 02:52 AM
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#307
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronspradley
Looking good. What is the width of the aluminum? Does it cover all of a side (from top seam to seam on bottom where storage bays start) or does it go up in layers?
ronspradley
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48" is as wide as I could find anywhere. From the top of the storage bay to the roof line seam is 80"... so 2 panels per side.
-cheers
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09-24-2015, 09:49 AM
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#308
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 36
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Your hardships and frustrations and despair are noteworthy. As a bystander, I am really excited to see the finished product. You are getting really close. Take your time and it will be done before you know it.
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